2018/2019 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Bingo

So you are tossing career averages out the window and ignoring that Bennett will be coming off what is an average year, vs Bouma coming off a career and clearly unsustainable year due to a 3X shooting percentage?

Pretty much yes.

"Treliving clearly signed him for what he brought that "one-hit wonder" year. Which is pretty much on par with what Bennett is bringing today."

Don't confuse my argument with one I'm not suggesting. I'm saying that when Bouma signed his 2.2M contract he was comparable to Bennett. I'm not saying Bennett is going to be out of the league by 28. I'm saying that, in 2014-2015, Bouma was an equivalent player to Bennett in 2018-2019.

We're talking about young players, the most important season when signing a contract was the last season. Bouma signed in 2015. His contract was probably 90% based on the 2014-2015 season. Bennett's contract will be 90% on the 2018-2019 season (which won't matter much because all his years have been relatively close).

Originally Posted by Bingo

These players aren't comparable.

Then they won't get comparable contracts. We'll see.

[Vinny01]

Please STOP the Bennett chat unless we are talking about his trade value and I don’t see any chance Bennett is moved prior to the playoffs.

Lots of rentals and players out there can we chat about that and move the Bennett discussion to a Jankowski thread or something?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

You quoted +/- stats in attempting to prove defensive responsibility.

Go stand in the corner.

Its not a perfect stat as i mentioned in its simplicity, but when its compared to only guys he plays/played with, it certainly is an indicator. Especially when the gulf between himself and EVERY single player that has played on the team since he started is what it is.

Feel free to explain it otherwise, but til now? He has been defensively mediocre to ok.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Please STOP the Bennett chat unless we are talking about his trade value and I don’t see any chance Bennett is moved prior to the playoffs.

Lots of rentals and players out there can we chat about that and move the Bennett discussion to a Jankowski thread or something?

As always when people complain about a thread having a conversation about something they don’t care for: feel free to add something that changes the conversation, or move on and enjoy your day.

If a few people want to talk about Bennett’s next contract, go nuts. If there’s something else interesting to talk about, don’t worry, it’ll get talked about.

It’s not like Mangiapane for Mark Stone is much more interesting.

[Flash Walken]

This Bennett/bouma discussion is really weird.

Bennett's point pace is entirely dependent on whether he plays with tkachuk. I don't even think it is an icetime thing.

He was on an 18 point pace his first 18 games, playing 12:32 per game.

He has 12 points in his last 27 games, playing 14.30.

His shooting percentage has essentially doubled over that frame.

Is he going to continue to produce to that extent away from Tkachuk? Very lofty expectation.

So do you pay Bennett on being a 30 point player spoon-fed prime minutes to produce, or do you pay him like the ~20 point 12 minute a night player he is otherwise? I mean, even after playing the last 25 games with tkachuk and backlund, he's still only on a 29 point pace after playing maybe his best 3 week stretch of play offensively.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

This Bennett/bouma discussion is really weird.

Bennett's point pace is entirely dependent on whether he plays with tkachuk. I don't even think it is an icetime thing.

He was on an 18 point pace his first 18 games, playing 12:32 per game.

He has 12 points in his last 27 games, playing 14.30.

His shooting percentage has essentially doubled over that frame.

Is he going to continue to produce to that extent away from Tkachuk? Very lofty expectation.

So do you pay Bennett on being a 30 point player spoon-fed prime minutes to produce, or do you pay him like the ~20 point 12 minute a night player he is otherwise? I mean, even after playing the last 25 games with tkachuk and backlund, he's still only on a 29 point pace after playing maybe his best 3 week stretch of play offensively.

He's producing like a 7th forward right now. Those are stats.

What players won't produce less when given less ice time and forced to play with lesser players? Maybe a handful of generational types, but other than that you're making an argument that applies to every single forward in the league aren't you?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Pretty much yes.

"Treliving clearly signed him for what he brought that "one-hit wonder" year. Which is pretty much on par with what Bennett is bringing today."

Don't confuse my argument with one I'm not suggesting. I'm saying that when Bouma signed his 2.2M contract he was comparable to Bennett. I'm not saying Bennett is going to be out of the league by 28. I'm saying that, in 2014-2015, Bouma was an equivalent player to Bennett in 2018-2019.

We're talking about young players, the most important season when signing a contract was the last season. Bouma signed in 2015. His contract was probably 90% based on the 2014-2015 season. Bennett's contract will be 90% on the 2018-2019 season (which won't matter much because all his years have been relatively close).


Then they won't get comparable contracts. We'll see.

How can you say equivalent when you're ignoring shooting percentage?

The seasons you are comparing (avg Bennett vs Bouma career) features one player tripling his shooting percentage and the other shooting basically right at his average in a contract year.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Its not a perfect stat as i mentioned in its simplicity, but when its compared to only guys he plays/played with, it certainly is an indicator. Especially when the gulf between himself and EVERY single player that has played on the team since he started is what it is.

Feel free to explain it otherwise, but til now? He has been defensively mediocre to ok.

It is largely a useless stat as it is completely dependent on your line mates, who you play against and whether you start in the offensive or defensive zones.

A bad plus minus doesn't prove a player cannot play defense.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Bingo

He's producing like a 7th forward right now. Those are stats.

What players won't produce less when given less ice time and forced to play with lesser players? Maybe a handful of generational types, but other than that you're making an argument that applies to every single forward in the league aren't you?

The point is why would we pay for what he can do with Tkachuk when we (hopefully) have no intention of playing him with Tkachuk in the future (unless he takes a big step in his development). I just hope we don't wind up with a Pisani or Bicknell contract. Well, if we win the Cup, I can live with it I guess.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

The point is why would we pay for what he can do with Tkachuk when we (hopefully) have no intention of playing him with Tkachuk in the future (unless he takes a big step in his development). I just hope we don't wind up with a Pisani or Bicknell contract. Well, if we win the Cup, I can live with it I guess.

So maybe we should put Tkachuk on the fourth line the rest of the year then ... give him Hathaway and Ryan as linemates.

Sorry ... tongue in cheek, but you put what you think are your best players together and because of that they are what they are.

The Flames have four clear cut star forwards, a clear next best forward in Backlund and then a Frolik/Bennett toss up for the 6th guy. Because of that they both have time on the 2nd and 3rd lines and with that get a % of time with top players and a % of time without.

They are where they're meant to be or they wouldn't be there.

[Gaskal]

I would target Kronwall (depth LD), Hagelin (depth speed/scoring), and McElhinney(backup) as rentals.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Bingo

So maybe we should put Tkachuk on the fourth line the rest of the year then ... give him Hathaway and Ryan as linemates.

Sorry ... tongue in cheek, but you put what you think are your best players together and because of that they are what they are.

The Flames have four clear cut star forwards, a clear next best forward in Backlund and then a Frolik/Bennett toss up for the 6th guy. Because of that they both have time on the 2nd and 3rd lines and with that get a % of time with top players and a % of time without.

They are where they're meant to be or they wouldn't be there.

Well, except we are already paying Neal to be the 6th forward, so that creates a problem... The spot as Tkachuk's RW is already taken... on the salary chart.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Well, except we are already paying Neal to be the 6th forward, so that creates a problem... The spot as Tkachuk's RW is already taken... on the salary chart.

They're paying Neal to be the third forward right now, not the 6th

But either way that doesn't affect Bennett's worth.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Bingo

How can you say equivalent when you're ignoring shooting percentage?

The seasons you are comparing (avg Bennett vs Bouma career) features one player tripling his shooting percentage and the other shooting basically right at his average in a contract year.

I really don't know why shooting percentage matters much at all. I'm not basing my opinion on their shooting percentage. I'm basing it on their play. I think 2014-2015 Bouma was a good player who brought an equivalent value to the team that Bennett is providing today. I'm not insulting Bennett's ancestors here. I just thought Bouma was good that year (for what he was). I'm sure if you went back in 2014 people thought relatively highly of him as well.

I think you're confusing the argument because you think Bouma was some scrub who sucked. I disagree, he was solid that year. A perfect bottom six player.

Bouma was a warrior, lead the team in short handed ice-time, fought when needed, came out with energy every shift. Willing to sacrifice the body for the team. It was a bonus that he produced with Backlund. Which if you really feel the need to talk about the shooting percentage, playing in a top six role where Backlund is feeding you pucks could account highly for it.

A good fourth line energy shift is one that starts in your own zone, gets the puck out, shoots the puck on net and gets a whistle so the first line can come out refreshed in the offensive zone. For most of his career, that would have been Bouma's goal (of course actual goals also would have been a huge bonus). But there's a difference between the way the fourth line and second line play. A second line will be looking for that past more often, the perfect shot and opportunity. Better player, better passers, different role, different stats.

But that's besides the point. I just think Bouma was a solid bottom six player who was able to play on the second line with Backlund that year. I think Bennett is a solid bottom six player who is able to play on the second line with Backlund.

You keep saying Bennett is a top 7 player because he's producing at that ~210 range. Cool. Bouma was 158th that year. I mean, production, play, he had a great year for a bottom six player which earned him 6.6M. It's not insulting to compare Bennett to him that year.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

I would target Kronwall (depth LD), Hagelin (depth speed/scoring), and McElhinney(backup) as rentals.

I don’t see the need for a backup goalie to be honest. If Rittich went down in game 1 of the playoffs I prefer Smith a proven goalie over McBackup personally. I know Smith has struggled but I would rather give him the net than McEilhinny in a playoff series.

Hagelin is interesting and would bring some speed to the bottom 6 but wouldn’t want to give up more than a 5th or 6th rounder for him. Kronwall I would part with a 3rd for but not much more but both would be decent depth options.

In a buyers market a lack of a 2nd this year could hurt

[sureLoss]

Insider Trading:
https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/insider...clause~1587120

Bobrovsky is willing to waive no trade clause
This summer agent gave a list of teams that Bobrovsky would be willing to go to and sign an extension with.
Kekalainen never contacted those teams because he wants to win now and will figure things out in the offseason

Brassard hasn't been a good fit with the Penguins
Expectation is that Brassard will be traded and the Pens want a #3 center back

Leafs 1st round pick in play
Could be part of a package for a top 4 d-man, but depends on the prospect/roster player in the package.

Leafs intend to use Gardiner as an "own rental" regardless of the slump he is now

Ducks would like to sign Silfverberg but depends on the money.
If he doesn't fit into their budget, they will move him.

Ditto for Ferland and Carolina.

[Oling_Roachinen]

I'm not sure where the Kronwall stuff is coming from, but I'm not sure if he'd even want to be moved. I could see him requesting to just retire as a Wing, he played his whole career there and has his Cups. He's discussed retiring after this season already. Limited NTC could prevent most of Detroit's offers if they didn't want to honour his request, but almost assuredly they would.

If he was available, I think I'd avoid it. Slower, not known for his breakout speed today. Would rather just stick with what we have, they're performing admirably and a lot of the success is the speedy transition from the defense. I don't see a huge reason to change the style for Kronwall.

Despite his big hits, he's not even all that big. If you're bringing in a veteran defenseman of his ilk, I'd prefer someone who can clear the front of the net on the penalty kill.

[Toonage]

I am certain that not only has Bob said he'd waive he has probably already told his agent to get it done. Wonder if his moving could open the opportunity for the Flames to upgrade their backup spot? Say Bobrovsky wants to go to the Islanders, does that make Lehner available, etc.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Bingo

He's producing like a 7th forward right now. Those are stats.

What players won't produce less when given less ice time and forced to play with lesser players? Maybe a handful of generational types, but other than that you're making an argument that applies to every single forward in the league aren't you?

He's 9th on the flames forwards in ppg, in the last ~25 games. Hea scoring less than jankowski but playing a minute more per game, including on the PP. He just spent 25 games with a guy on pace to score 93 points. When he wasn't playing with that player he was in pace for 18 points.

It's the star player effect. Bennett has literally seen his offensive production double since playing with tkachuk.

Sure, with cap inflation maybe I'm off and he's a 2 million dollar player, but the flames don't have space for a 3 million dollar Bennett.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Insider Trading:
https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/insider...clause~1587120

Bobrovsky is willing to waive no trade clause
This summer agent gave a list of teams that Bobrovsky would be willing to go to and sign an extension with.
Kekalainen never contacted those teams because he wants to win now and will figure things out in the offseason

Brassard hasn't been a good fit with the Penguins
Expectation is that Brassard will be traded and the Pens want a #3 center back

Leafs 1st round pick in play
Could be part of a package for a top 4 d-man, but depends on the prospect/roster player in the package.

Leafs intend to use Gardiner as an "own rental" regardless of the slump he is now

Ducks would like to sign Silfverberg but depends on the money.
If he doesn't fit into their budget, they will move him.

Ditto for Ferland and Carolina.

Brassard for Ryan?

While Ryan is a right shot and great F/O guy getting out of that contract wouldn’t be the worst thing. Flames could add but Brassard could be a good C for Neal