[Trade] Elias Lindholm + Noah Hanifin to Flames for D. Hamilton, Micheal Ferland, & Adam Fox

[flamesfever]

It was probably one of the best trades to go down in Flames history. You have to give to get, and did we ever get.

I tend to agree that Hamilton's heart really didn't seem to be in the defensive end of the game, and he really never seemed to fit in. I thought it may have come from giving him the big pay day too soon, considering his age and development. I also never liked what we had to give to get him. In any case, I never did like him being on our team, in spite of his offensive success.

I also agree that offering Fox, in addition to Ferland, was the key to making the deal.

Tre and the scouting team did a magnificent job in pinpointing Lindholm and Hanifin as players that could make our team better...so much better that no one could have ever imagined. I think it's a perfect example of how the combination of skill, when coupled with the right chemistry, can do wonders for a team.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

I'll give you props, you were happy with the trade from the get-go.

It's funny to go back and read some of the people calling for Treliving's head in the first few pages.

I was disappointed he didn’t use our best trade chip to bring in a top line right winger.

But he did.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

...Rittich could also be a surprise nominee. At the start of last season, I couldn't have possibly imagined Hellebuyck being nominated, but there he was at the end of the season. We've also seen quite a few Vezina candidates and winners in the 50's in terms of games played. It's not unheard of. Heck, Kipper only played 38 when he was nominated the first time.

Rittich has also seen an increase in games every month that he has played so far this season. He started with 6, then 7, then 10 in December. If that pace stays steady, or even if he just plays 10 per month for the next 3 months. He'll be easily in the 50's where I've already established, can get you a Vezina nomination.

Rittich started nine games in December, which represented a 2:1 ratio of the games. If he starts three out of four games for the duration of the season he will finish with 51. I believe this will be the high-water mark for him. Over the course of the past five years only three Vezina finalists have recorded fewer than 60 games—Rask played 58 in 2014, Dubnyk played 58 in 2015, and Rinne played 59 last year. I don't think Rittich will get close enough to that number to garner the requisite votes.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by bax

Wow, went and read the first few pages of this thread and I can't believe the outrage. I didn't remember it being that bad.

Posters calling it a debacle, calling for Treliving's head, claiming they are done with this team.

Just goes to show that the average fan really doesn't know all that much. 6 months later and this trade is looking like a landslide win for Calgary.

I wonder how many in the overreact crowd in this topic have overreacted to Hamonic and other things in the past as well?

[dammage79]

Hanifin>Hamilton for the simple fact he can look like a decent hockey player without all time great D men propping him up.

Said it many times in this thread, this trade had a great impact on too many different things for it to not work. Honestly, it was like fixing a DNA strand in a sci-fi movie. Like when the spider bites Peter Parker and it re-arranges his DNA.

Just rounded out the roster so well. Who knew swapping out two players was going to be such a game changer. Im just happy it was the two kids we got.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I wonder how many in the overreact crowd in this topic have overreacted to Hamonic and other things in the past as well?

I hated the Hamonic trade, Hated it after his 1st season too. He and Hanifin though have changed my mind. Picks are gone, life goes on and Hamonic doesn't suck. So....

[Fan in Exile]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I wonder how many in the overreact crowd in this topic have overreacted to Hamonic and other things in the past as well?

Not equivalent. I like Hamonic but we overpaid for him. I also didn't like the Smith trade. We overpaid for him too.

Glad the trade for Lindholm and Hanifin has worked out so fantastically well and Treliving deserves kudos for it for sure. Was on the fence initially.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Shazam

He's an average defender. He's a #3-4 d-man on a good day in terms of defending the puck. You do not want him out there against other team's top lines.

He's above average offensively though.

Sorry, I should have put defenseman in parentheses to emphasize the defending part.

Honestly, I think he's a below average defender, which probably makes him overall, an average defenceman as his offense balances out the defence.

I mean, just look at the impact he had on Gio's game. If you want to shut Gio down, pair him with Hamilton!

[flamesfever]

I also don't thing one can talk about the success of this trade, without mentioning the change in coaching that was made. I'm really impressed with Peters ability to get the best out of our team...perhaps except for the odd player.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

Not equivalent. I like Hamonic but we overpaid for him. I also didn't like the Smith trade. We overpaid for him too.

Glad the trade for Lindholm and Hanifin has worked out so fantastically well and Treliving deserves kudos for it for sure. Was on the fence initially.

If you look at what defensemen have been traded for over the last 15 years I think you’ll find the Hamonic deal is market value. Some fans underrate how much GMs will pay for physical defensemen.

Dude has been a beast for us this year. He’s like a less punishing but better skating, puck moving and shooting version of Regehr.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

Not equivalent. I like Hamonic but we overpaid for him. I also didn't like the Smith trade. We overpaid for him too.

Glad the trade for Lindholm and Hanifin has worked out so fantastically well and Treliving deserves kudos for it for sure. Was on the fence initially.

Did we though? I think the over payment for Hamonic is drastically overstated because that pick unexpectedly became a lottery ball pick (because the Flames did worse than expected, and the NHL lottery system has all non playoff teams with a chance in the lottery), which does have to be factored in, but is mentally making the deal seem worse for fans.

- Hamonic is a legit, top quality Top 4 D man in this league, maybe top 2 potential. I get that picks are important, but even with that first round being a 12th overall, and the two 2nd rounds to go with it, I think between those 3 picks you are hoping you get a player that can play in the Top 4 on D (or equivalent) to emerge at best.

Not saying it was a steal, but it seems like pretty fair trade value for a part as important as Hamonic to building a strong team. That's not even factoring in the fact that the Flames had young depth on D (Anderson, Kylington, Valimaki) so makes the picks easier to give, and the fact that given Hamonic's trade requests, he was going to end up on a direct, likely divisional rival if he didn't end up with us.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

So for me this trade works as follows:

I like the players we got in Hanifin and Lindholm.

I don't mind trading Dougie or Ferland.

I really don't like having to include Fox to get the deal done.

So overall I still am a "Meh" on the trade but mostly because I hate when you have deals that you give up the best player and the best prospect...that should never happen.

It is fun to look back.

Looking back at my posts I wasn't a huge fan of the deal but mostly because I didn't like giving up Fox.

Since this post though I think two things became clear:

1) Dougie was not the best player in the deal, that appears to be Lindholm after half a season.

2) Fox probably wasn't going to sign here and Flames didn't want to be going into next offseason shopping him 1 year away from UFA.

It still hurts to give up Fox who has 20 points in 12 games at Harvard but signing Lindholm and Hanifin to reasonable deals and then seeing them perform great has made the trade look good.

[Captaincanada80]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

It still hurts to give up Fox who has 20 points in 12 games at Harvard but signing Lindholm and Hanifin to reasonable deals and then seeing them perform great has made the trade look good.

It’s not a reasonable deal, it’s an outstanding deal!

Of all contracts over 3M AAV Lindholm ranks 4th in the League for Value/PT

Couple that in with him being the Leading Forward in +/- and getting Selke Buzz, this is a complete steal of a contract for the next 6 years.

1. Kucherov 4.77M
2. Domi 3.15M
3. Reinhart 3.65M
4. Lindholm 4.85M

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

Not equivalent. I like Hamonic but we overpaid for him. I also didn't like the Smith trade. We overpaid for him too.

Glad the trade for Lindholm and Hanifin has worked out so fantastically well and Treliving deserves kudos for it for sure. Was on the fence initially.

Disagree.

Not only has Hamonic shown how good of a defenseman he actually is, but let's not forget how fantastic his contract is as well: $3.857M. Dirt cheap.

The Flames' top 8 D costs less than the Oilers' does. Let that sink in. And a big reason for it is how cheap Hamonic is.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Captaincanada80

It’s not a reasonable deal, it’s an outstanding deal!

Of all contracts over 3M AAV Lindholm ranks 4th in the League for Value/PT

Couple that in with him being the Leading Forward in +/- and getting Selke Buzz, this is a complete steal of a contract for the next 6 years.

1. Kucherov 4.77M
2. Domi 3.15M
3. Reinhart 3.65M
4. Lindholm 4.85M

the signings of hanifin and Lindholm to long term deals with great numbers can't be underestimated... 2 young guys that fit in with the core of the teams? they were reasonable contracts based on projecting their numbers from Carolina.

They've performed at a much higher level than what their histories would have suggested.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Captaincanada80

It’s not a reasonable deal, it’s an outstanding deal!

Of all contracts over 3M AAV Lindholm ranks 4th in the League for Value/PT

Couple that in with him being the Leading Forward in +/- and getting Selke Buzz, this is a complete steal of a contract for the next 6 years.

1. Kucherov 4.77M
2. Domi 3.15M
3. Reinhart 3.65M
4. Lindholm 4.85M

Amazing thing about this is Kucherov's cap goes from 4.77 to 9.5 next season and Domi's deal and Reinhart's deal expire after next season.

Meanwhile the Flames have Lindholm and Hanifin locked up for 5 more seasons.

[ToraToraTora]

I remember being shocked at the trade, since I was driving and my wife just told me the flames traded Dougie Hamilton without knowing what return was for a few seconds. It took a day or two to digest, but I was pretty excited after that.

Part of it is I've always liked Lindholm. I'm sure everyone on this board has some player on some other team that for whatever reason, they just latched onto. When we had that Monahan pick, that was the first year I really was interested in who the flames picked because B) it was a high pick and B) I felt like we never picked in the first round. I liked Lindholm that year and wanted the Flames to pick him (I was wrong and happy about being wrong), but I kept following him, and always thought he had more.

Now, it's great. Good fit.

That's probably the biggest change I see this year from other years. Players fit together, and they have fun. And this trade was a huge part of getting to that point.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by bax

Amazing thing about this is Kucherov's cap goes from 4.77 to 9.5 next season and Domi's deal and Reinhart's deal expire after next season.

Meanwhile the Flames have Lindholm and Hanifin locked up for 5 more seasons.

And I think Domi and Reinhart have way more peaks and valleys in their play than Lindholm and Hanifin.

[Matty81]

I thought they didn't get enough in the Hamilton deal initially given he was the best player in the deal. For me Fox made it an over payment. Obviously happy about it now and glad to be wrong!



I did not see Lindholm putting up 30goals and 70+ points that's for sure or the Flames getting him and Hanifin locked down for such a long time. Also how bad Hamilton would be without Gio and how much chemistry Hanifin and Hamonic would develop so quickly. On Hamonic, I love the guy but I still think they overpaid a bit personally, great add just not enough offensive upside to justify the 3 high picks. That said a couple nights this year I've rethought that, he's really showing a lot of improvement this year.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

i don't know if that's a fair characterization... quite a few people liked the trade or thought it was a saw off...

i think the inclusion of Fox, as opposed to another prospect or pick is what made most people against the trade, because there was a lot to be excited for...

I liked the trade from the start, and obviously love it even more now. I never understood the hype for Dougie, all most people seemed to care about were the points. All I remember is watching the tire fire he was in the Flames zone with the puck and the lazy backchecking without it, I was happy the Flames got rid of him even without knowing anything about Hanifin. I was more upset over losing Ferland since I really liked him, but the more I read about Lindholm (younger, good contract, consistent 40 point scorer) the better I felt. Fox I didn't care about since he wasn't going to sign anyways

At worst I thought this trade would leave the Flames in the same position they were with better potential upside in the future. My wild dream speculation was that Lindholm would dominate on the first line and Hanifin would surpass Hamilton completely. Pretty happy that the dream wasn't so wild after all