Taking a peek at the powerplay: what makes PP1 so good & what's fuelling PP2's blues

[cral12]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

If Czarnik could prove he deserves a spot in the lineup every game he could be a help to the second PP.

Great post Scorp.

Agree w/ StrangeBrew - when watching Bruins game, Czar showed what he could do and I was thinking sure like to see him replace Ryan on PP2.
Also agree Janko deserving of a trial on PP2.

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I know it would possibly hurt PP1 but I'd give Lindholm a shot at primary playmaker on PP2 and maybe put Neal on PP1 in exchange. Put Neal as a shooter on the right, where Lindholm is now.

With Lindholm in the second unit, probably taking faceoffs, you don't need Ryan, so you can replace him with someone with more finish, or a net front guy. You could also potentially put Rasmus out there as the right side shooter.

Gaudreau-Monahan-Neal-Tkachuk-Gio
Bennett-Lindholm-BacklundJankowski-Rasmus-Hanifin

Putting Neal on PP1 looks good on paper, but you’ll be making a switch by the third powerplay when he screws up a zone entry, gives the puck away for a SHG, and has multiple plays die on his stick (if earlier in the season was any indication — it was that bad).

[Dajazz]

Ryan gets puck at half boards, takes two strides, fires weak slapper in to the closest skates. Puck bounces to Neal, well, where Neal should’ve been and is cleared by opposition. Rinse and repeat. It’s bad, like superbad bad.

Should try Hanifin - Andersson at the top, Bennett in front. Neal (on the right) and whoever at the circles, just slam pucks at the net. Can’t get worse.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

One possible solution that I could see would be to try Lindholm on PP2 and put Andersson in his spot on PP1, but the "Gaudreau->Lindholm->quick snap->goal/Tkachuk rebound" play has worked so, so well on that unit. I would be very hesitant to play around with the personnel on the first unit.

Also, thank you all for your support.

Definitely don’t mess with PP1.

For PP2 they should just play an umbrella with the new best one timers on the team on their off wings, and just hammer away from both sides (Neal could be one of them). I don’t understand why they don’t try that.

[Coach]

I really don't get the hesitation to put Andersson on PP2. He gets pucks through and moves it well. Bump Ryan down to Neal's place so he can take faceoffs if need be, and get Neal out of there until he decides he wants to show some effort and awareness about literally anything.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Coach

I really don't get the hesitation to put Andersson on PP2. He gets pucks through and moves it well. Bump Ryan down to Neal's place so he can take faceoffs if need be, and get Neal out of there until he decides he wants to show some effort and awareness about literally anything.

Would like to see them try Andersson in for Backs and Janko in for Bennett.

Hanafin
Neal-Ryan-Andersson
Janko

[bigpete]

This PP2 unit is goin' Nowhere Man. They definitely play Helter Skelter. They need to Get Back to basics.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by bigpete

This PP2 unit is goin' Nowhere Man. They definitely play Helter Skelter. They need to Get Back to basics.

Trouble is, PP1 is fab, but PP2 is only a pale imitation. People say they Monkee around.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Coach

I really don't get the hesitation to put Andersson on PP2. He gets pucks through and moves it well. Bump Ryan down to Neal's place so he can take faceoffs if need be, and get Neal out of there until he decides he wants to show some effort and awareness about literally anything.

I don't see Anderson as the fix to the PP2 woes. I love the success story that is our 3 rookie Dmen this year but why would our #3 RD be the fix to PP2 over our #1 RD or our #2 RD? I get that he has a cannon of a shot but when you look at what each of these guys has done thus far this season it is hard to argue that Anderson has earned the nod ahead of similar options who have also not had much a chance at power play time.

Anderson = 1g, 3a
Hamonic = 3g, 8a
Brodie = 5g, 11a

From my point of view Peters needs to do one of two things with PP2; Either he needs to try to make it a clone of PP1 using everyone not in the 'top 5' (which I think has been the plan most of the season) or he needs to build a power play unit around the 'next 5'.

Right now the 'next 5' would consist of Hanifin, Backlund, Jankowski, Brodie and Bennett. Unless you wanted to go by points per game instead of pure points and then it looks to be Hanifin, Backlund, Jankowski, Frolik, and Brodie.

With those 2 groups coming down to Bennett vs Frolik, I think I would rather see Bennett in there. He has had so many goals called back and high quality chances that are not shown on the stat sheet, whereas Frolik has a bunch of empty net goals that kinda exaggerate his offense this season, I think Bennett has a better chance of helping PP2 generate goals.

You have to go to nearly the bottom of the team's points list to find Anderson. That makes it hard to put him into the conversation ahead of anyone else.

[Lil Pedro]

Put Rasmus Anderrson on PP2. Been saying it for weeks now

[DeluxeMoustache]

This actually is a good place for the coach to step up and put a system in place that suits the players available. Determine what works given the resources available. PP2 game plan doesn’t need to try to mirror PP1.

#1 - Derek Ryan has to go. He is a low event player, reliable defensively, decent on draws. But, consider 2 philosophies:
a) we need our best faceoff guy out there because you want to start with the puck
b) we need the best offensive threat out there because we need to score

You have to go with B.

About the value on faceoffs, often PP2 changes to come on the ice on the fly, after the PK has dumped it down. Conversely, the first unit out (usually PP1) always starts on the faceoff (Faceoffs: Monahan 87, Lindholm 77, Backlund 33, Ryan 20)

Ryan is 50 percent on his 20 draws. So if he was 5 percent better, which is really good, they may win one extra faceoff the rest of this season.

Secondly, even if you lose a draw, usually it is about 15 seconds for the other team to dump it down and you to regain possession. With a more dangerous offensive player, you still have 30 seconds left in the shift once you regain control.

So long story short, if Ryan is used due to being perceived to be good on faceoffs on PP2, there is really no value whatsoever in this philosophy.

#2 - Find and use a strategy that works given the personnel. PP1 is going to score due to the sheer skill and creativity of the 5 guys.
If you hired Neal to be a sniper, put him in the right circle like Caps do with Ovechkin (other side) and try to feed him for one timers. Iggy used to park on the side like that, Cammalleri as well. These were guys who were considered shooters
Brodie or Andersson could be used on the point. I have seen them both make good offensive moves inside the line.
Figure out who has good hand eye and get them practising what Tkachuk does. Tips and garbage goals. Guys like Franzen and Andreychuk made careers in the crease area. There must be someone who can learn that

[SeanCharles]

Its becoming obvious to me that PP2 isn't going to see an improvement until it is tinkered with and for me that means a new player, not already in the organization, needs to be added.

Outside of that our top 3 lines can use a new player as well so we can solidify the lineup.

Czarnik has looked good for a couple games now but isn't lighting the world on fire by any means.

The callups have filled in but just aren't quite there yet either.

We need to add a guy that can play top 9 and 2nd PP unit - ideally a RWer or C - Czarnik stays as the 13th forward.

Hanifin, Backlund, Bennett and Neal are guys I would probably keep on the unit, possibly cycling out Neal for Jankowski if he continues down the path he's begun.

I think next season is when we look at grooming guys like Andersson, Kylington and Valimaki on the 2nd unit. For this season just let them play their solid minutes 5v5 and not have too much responsibility.

If we don't add a guy I wouldn't mind trying Andersson out instead of Ryan.

[Itse]

Using a different strategy for different PP's makes it harder for guys to just slot in and out when needed, and risks confusion any time something other than 100% 1st unit or 100% second unit is on ice, which isn't a rare situation in hockey.

I'm sure this isn't an insurmountable issue and that it's been done somewhere, but there's a good reason why teams tend to have just one system.

On the other hand, I think having different systems would make our PP harder to defend against. After all, the other team also needs to adjust to what we're doing, but they don't get to practice when exactly are we changing up.

Still, I get why both units play the same system, and I doubt they'll move away from that, even if I would also like to see it tried. But I would like to see different guys given changes on PP2. It's not like it could be much worse.

[redforever]

The problem with PP2 is the guys on it don't have the same vision of the ice. They play almost rote, around the perimeter passing.

And PP2 doesn't have the same talent for passing either so pucks either get cleared or bobbled and out of the zone.

And lastly, the guys on PP2 don't have the same propensity for scoring goals either. Some like Neal should but they are missing in action.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

If you hired Neal to be a sniper, put him in the right circle like Caps do with Ovechkin (other side) and try to feed him for one timers. Iggy used to park on the side like that, Cammalleri as well. These were guys who were considered shooters

I think that is another good reason to get Ryan off of the unit. The way it is designed now, Ryan occupies the right side (Lindholm style) where Neal would want to be set up for the big one-timers. This leaves Neal to try to snipe from the slot (Monahan position) but I feel like he spends more time in the low spot (Tkachuk).

If you wanted to really set up Neal for sniping I think we would have Jankowski or Bennett in the slot with the other one down low, Neal on the right, Hanifin up top, and Backlund driving the play from the left side.

Hanifin would need to cheat to the right side because there is not much chance that Neal is going to be preventing a rush the other way in case of a misplay and then Backlund would need to be the other defensively minded player coming back on the left.

(Or put Brodie in Neal's spot and I think the unit can work similarly to how PP1 is)

[djsFlames]

On PP1 Lindholm, Monahan and Giordano shoot the puck with strength and accuracy.

No one on PP2 shoots the puck. On the rare occasion that they do and it doesn't miss the net by one or more feet, it's probably Hanifin and it's into the goaltender's midsection.

/thread

[David Struch]

James Neal and the kids should be on the 2nd powerplay....

James Neal, Mark Jankowski, Austin Czarnik (right hand faceoffs)

Oliver Kylington, Rasmus Andersson (big point shot)

[GioforPM]

All of these PP2 lineups lack a playmaker. That's why I suggested moving Lindholm to PP2 (admittedly to the detriment of PP1). PP1 has 3-4 playmakers at present (Gaudreau, Lindholm, Tkachuk and Gio - and Monahan isn't chopped liver). They might be able to afford losing one and replacing Lindholm with a right side shooter makes sense - if not Neal, then maybe Andersson? Or Frolik (except it encourages his agent's behaviour).

I agree that Neal isn't used well - he needs to be a right side shooter, not a slot shooter or net front guy. I'd like to see Jankowski in front of the net.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Peters and staff reading CP?

Originally Posted by sureLoss

REJOICE!


Ryan Dittrick @ryandittrick
#Flames likely to go with a different look on their second powerplay unit tonight. More of an old-school setup with two D up top. Austin Czarnik said it's going to be a "shooter's powerplay."

PP2:
Czarnik - Neal - Jankowski

Brodie - Andersson

[TheScorpion]

Hmmm. No Backlund, Hanifin, or Ryan. Not sure I like all those changes.