Examining different options to replace Mike Smith

[Kasi]

I’m fine with paying a 4th for a stop gap rental and a 3rd for something with upside. (Aka someone we can resign or who is still a RFA) I don’t think there is anyone on the market worth paying a 1st for.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

Smith + Neal for decent backup?

I know you're joking.

Wait.... I hope you're joking.... but in case you aren't, Smith and Neal would clear waivers.


Seriously though, Smith wouldn't be too hard to include in a deadline deal as his contract expires (4.2 cap hit).. He seems like he's a team player and I'm sure he wouldn't be too picky with his 10 team no trade list.

First and foremost we need to see what we have in Gillies.

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

They have to bring in a new backup before the deadline. They have to. You can never assume your starting goaltender will remain healthy for the rest of the season and be able to start in the playoffs. If Rittich was to suffer a long term injury after in March it's basically season over.

Now is the time to play Gillies as the backup. Before the deadline as the team needs to know sooner rather than later if he's even an option. There's absolutely nothing to lose at this point and chances are he's probably going to be better than Smith. In 11 games last season he had a 2.88 GAA and 0.896 SV%. That's already an improvement on Smith.

Agreed — they need a better option than what Smith currently is giving them, and it needs to happen before the trade deadline. But it’s also the first week of January and unless you happen to catch someone on waivers, most teams are still in the playoff chase and not looking to give up a decent goalie yet. So I agree now is the time to give Gillies (and/or Schneider) a shot and wait until closer to the deadline to try and pick up a rental as insurance.

[FlamingHomer]

Maybe what Calgary should do is try to trade something for either Winnipeg's or Minnesota's goalie coach and make what we already have, better. Both of those teams have shown to create good goalies from ones on the scrap heap.

Sent from my MHA-L29 using Tapatalk

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Stop trying to make Vanek happen. It's never going to happen. If you really need a winger, target someone on the right side of 30.

Say what you will -- I included him along with the rest of Detroit's pending UFAs simply for the sake of completeness -- but Geoff Ward insists upon having a right-handed shot working the right side of the powerplay and he would certainly be a sizable upgrade in that position on Derek Ryan.

But he would not be my first choice.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Freeway

Expensive, old, or expensive *and* old?

In short, yes. For options of another flavour, you typically have to wait until the summer. That's when the Grubauers, the Joneses, and the Raantas typically switch hands. For the now, in a season where the Flames seem set up to win, they need to go with what's available.

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Brilliant post Scorp, thank you.

I don’t think McBackup spends his evenings on waivers though. Maybe “sortie” is the word you want there?

Thanks! And yeah, no, I was looking for the word I chose - McElhinney has spent a number of evenings on waivers, considering that players go on them at noon and stay on them overnight.

[SuperMatt18]

First thing in all of this: DO NOT TRADE A 1ST ROUNDER FOR A STOP GAP FIX AT GOALIE

As part of a bigger package filling more than 1 need: sure. In a trade that brings in a long term solution in net with Rittich for the next 5 years: Sure. But under no circumstances should we move a first for a Jimmy Howard type solution.

If the price for Howard ends up being a 2nd rounder then sure look at that, but no way should they move a first for him. I actually think that McElhinney would be my preferred choice if you could get him for say a 3rd rounder.

[Itse]

My problem with getting a new backup is that any resource spent would likely be better spent on a guy that's actually likely to play in the playoffs. Which your backup goaltender is not likely to do.

We are also really, really short on quality forward prospects. Quality forwards on ELC's are crucial to creating a successful team in the cap era. We need to keep our draft picks really bad or our window will close prematurely.

Spending a first on a goalie when we already have a starter is not a good way to spend that resource, when you consider what else a first round pick can get you.

Of course all that said, goalies are often surprisingly cheap. A 4th rounder or below with a quality AHL guy can get it done.

However, I'd first rotate the depth goalies we have in the backup role.

I think we have almost the perfect situation for giving kids experience. It's really hard to be worse Smith, but there's no need to carry the team, and the team is good enough to make the playoffs pretty much regardless of how bad the goalies not-named Rittich play.

(We're on track to 105 points with Smith starting half the games so far.)

[Jore]

How long is Miller supposed to be out for? best fix seems just to wait for Johnson to hit waivers again. I also would have taken Mckenna on waivers yesterday. improvement over Smith this season.

edit: what about anderson from ottawa? old and liable to break down (with an extra year of contract) but has vastly outperformed smith behind a terrible, terrible defense. he'd be cheap, smith going back might be all it takes

[TheScorpion]

I think Miller's supposed to be back within a month. His prognosis at the beginning of December was six weeks.

[Groot]

I don't think this provides the immediate fix the Flames need, but I've been looking at this for a while so seems like an appropriate topic to bring it up.

What are the rules surrounding international players joining a team mid-season? I know he would need some time in the AHL but I would really like to see the Flames take a look at Jonas Gunnarsson, and maybe this is simply an offseason pick-up and not possible mid-season.

Jonas Gunnarrson is 26, 6"1 and 198 lbs, currently playing in the Swedish Elite League for HV71. Played pretty much his entire career in Swedish leagues, starting in the Elite League (HV71) but dropped himself down to 2nd division (Malmo) in 2014 to get more playing time, and subsequently helped Malmo get promoted to the 1st division.

He then got signed to a 1-year contract with Nashville in 2016. He played 16 games for the Admirals in the AHL, posting a less-than-impressive .878 with a 3.28 GAA. At the time Nashville had Rinne in peak form, and Saros had just graduated to the back-up role. The GM wanted to reset the AHL depth in Milwaukee as the NHL positions were set, so then 24-year old Gunnarsson returned to Sweden. Hard to gauge what 16 games 3 years ago look like, especially being the first time playing in NA.

Back with Malmo in the SEL last season, he put up .908 in 18 games with 2.55 GAA, and was loaned to HV71 for 4 games where he went .909 with 2.04 GAA, then really found his groove and put up 1.47 GAA with a .947 in 6 playoff games for Malmo.

This season he has played exclusively for HV71 and has continued his strong play and managed a really impressive 1.73 GAA with .935 in 19 games, leading all goalies in the SEL.

Especially with Gillies not developing as hoped, I would absolutely bring this guy over ASAP and see how he looks in the AHL. Worst case scenario he's a depth signing, best case scenario he's really starting to find his game, he's had some exposure to NA ice so it's not completely foreign this time around, and becomes a competent back-up or even 1b option with Rittich. Also cheaper than a lot of other options.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Of course we all would do it, the problem is there is no way STL does. I don't think getting out of the Allen contract is worth losing Schenn and gaining a 25-31 draft pick.

Well it depends on the Blues plans this summer. This trade would open up over
$5M in cap space for the Blues next summer and if they want to take a run at Bobrovsky this deal would help them. Flames likely need to add another prospect but the deal has a ton of risk for Calgary. If Allen keeps sucking that is $4.3M in dead cap space for the next 2 years. Schenn could be a 1.5 year rental and leave while the Flames are stuck with a bad goalie contract and no 1st, 2nd in 2 straight drafts.

[Duffalufagus]

Howard looks to be the only realistic option. But paying a 1st is ridiculous and I wouldn't do it.

It looks like we have limited options and are going to have to ride this one out and hope Rittich does not get hurt. None of those other guys (Babrovski is not a serious option) are worth paying for as they wouldn't be able to take us to the promised land if rittich got hurt anyway.

[Duffalufagus]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

I know you're joking.

Wait.... I hope you're joking.... but in case you aren't, Smith and Neal would clear waivers.


Seriously though, Smith wouldn't be too hard to include in a deadline deal as his contract expires (4.2 cap hit).. He seems like he's a team player and I'm sure he wouldn't be too picky with his 10 team no trade list.

First and foremost we need to see what we have in Gillies.

What we have in Gillies? A guy with a worse save percentage than Smith playing in the AHL. So, in other words, nothing.

[roberts10]

Smith needs to adjust his game. He’s way too deep in his net and his reflexes are not what they once were.

[Split98]

Like this seperate thread for this btw. Seems like much to do about a backup, but it's breaking the circles we talk in all the time - and it's clearly bothering fans about this otherwise great team.

For me, there's a lot out there if you're just solving the backup position. At that point, a 1A-1B scenario we originally hoped Smith would be a part of is gone. To upgrade what we have now we need a backup that isn't sewering games

Gillies
His AHL stats are horrid, and what he did last year was tough to watch. By all accounts, he has not earned this chance lately, but we should be this desperate to find a solution to Smith as a backup.

Boston was a great opportunity to see what we have, and look at where we'd be if we had. If Gillies proved all the signs were correct, we have as much trust in Gillies as we did entering the game. If he played well... we win that game, have a potential answer to backup and we have the Detroit game narrative with Smith vs what we have now.

Considering he didn't get the start and a struggling goalie played B2B and lost horribly tells me a lot of what they think of Gillies - and I wonder if they even pencil him into plans any longer if he's viewed as this useless.

McElhinney
A goalie that was had for free doesn't garner much, and he's worked his way through the league doing exactly what we need someone to do here.

The only knock on Curtis is the optics of this tandem around the league. Rittich has played great - so well in fact that I wish he slid into the ASG this year - but has yet to show he's a #1 in the playoffs.

McElhinney can hold the fort as he's shown that tons of times since he left us. But until Rittich holds that #1 spot through more turmoil than he has... whoever is back there has to be capable of stepping into more of a 50/50 than normal. McE leaves that question mark IMO, but in Carolina he's shown a lot to raise confidence in that

Lehner
As a good follow-up to my worries about McElhinney... Lehner's issue will be playing a backup role. I think acquiring him splits Rittich time immediately, and I'm not sure that's a bad thing to anyone.

The acquisition cost is the biggest question mark here. I have no clue they would want for a rebounding goalie with good starts infront of decent defence on a team that could use him... or could just miss the playoffs.

Talbot
The right man to solve the enemies problems does sit in ####sville with his finger on the button. It seems crazy that Edmonton would fix Calgary's goalie problem, but this guy brought in Public Enemy #1... while losing the trade and increasing his cap problems. I wouldn't rule anything out...

Talbot had given up in Edmonton I think, but we saw great goaltending infront of mayhem from him already - and he's accustomed to the backup role. He's a FA next year, so I've always viewed him as potential here in the first place... but his availability so soon this year was unexpected.

I'm sure Chia will want something notable if he's going to shore up his enemies goaltending - but his view of a 'won deal' doesn't come at much of a cost. The trade has so much to look forward to, I want it to happen more than most options.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

Here’s the problem. Treliving needs to upgrade G and everyone knows it.

Just as he had to overpay for smith, every Gm will make him overpay in any trade.

I believe that last night was a function of playing smith on back to backs, maybe Peters should have gone with Gillies.

One option that doesn’t involve an overpayment would be Darling from Carolina. Granted Peters had him in Carolina and may not want to touch him, but imagine a scenario where we move a disgruntled frolik for Darling (and hopefully a little more). Instead of hoping that smith finds his game, we hope that Darling does here.

As the deadline approaches it becomes a pinch point for teams looking to maximize assets they are going to lose anyways.
GMs may feel like they have BT over a barrel, but as long as Rittich comes back and plays well, it isn't like the Flames are looking for a new #1. They are looking for a better backup. Teams will be looking to flip an expiring goalie for something at the deadline. This is why patience is key here.

I don't think the Oiler goalies are options (until the off-season) because they are unlikely to want to help out the Flames at all, and also I don't think know what they are doing yet.
Talbot would be a guy I target in the summer though.

As an aside last night I came up with a name that I though would work: Michael Neuvirth
Then I looked at his numbers.

^I like Lehner as the target for the deadline.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Duffalufagus

What we have in Gillies? A guy with a worse save percentage than Smith playing in the AHL. So, in other words, nothing.

I understand what you are saying and you may be right

Dont use his numbers in the A to determine that however. That defense in Stockton is abysmal as the 3 best players they should have down there are on the Flames blueline, so those G's are likely facing a big number of grade a chances.

Look at Schneiders numbers as an example...way better in the AHL than they are in the ECHL.

Speaking of which, maybe he can be a guy that comes out of no where and figures it out.

[Duffalufagus]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I understand what you are saying and you may be right

Dont use his numbers in the A to determine that however. That defense in Stockton is abysmal as the 3 best players they should have down there are on the Flames blueline, so those G's are likely facing a big number of grade a chances.

Look at Schneiders numbers as an example...way better in the AHL than they are in the ECHL.

Speaking of which, maybe he can be a guy that comes out of no where and figures it out.

I agree that he can't be worse than Smith. But that is damning with faint praise.

I also get that the D down there is depleted.

If we can't get Howard (for something reasonable) then I think we have to roll with what we have. and that may as well include giving Gillies a couple of games to see. I do also worry that Smith will destroy the locker room if that happens.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

As the deadline approaches it becomes a pinch point for teams looking to maximize assets they are going to lose anyways.
GMs may feel like they have BT over a barrel, but as long as Rittich comes back and plays well, it isn't like the Flames are looking for a new #1. They are looking for a better backup. Teams will be looking to flip an expiring goalie for something at the deadline. This is why patience is key here.

I don't think the Oiler goalies are options (until the off-season) because they are unlikely to want to help out the Flames at all, and also I don't think know what they are doing yet.
Talbot would be a guy I target in the summer though.

As an aside last night I came up with a name that I though would work: Michael Neuvirth
Then I looked at his numbers.

^I like Lehner as the target for the deadline.

Yeah he isnt the guy in Philly I would look at. Alex Lyon is however.

As for Lehner...really unlikely they move him. They are 1 pt out of a spot and 3 points out of 1st in the division.

Yeah if they stumble and fall out of it, then by all means he is a guy who will be in play but otherwise there is no reason for the Isles to move him.


K...who here would have though at the beginning of the year they would be pining for Brian Elliot to be a Flame again?