Of course some people are. Watch the GT tonight, it will be toxic. There's a handful of posters who I won't name that give the guy the gears even when he makes saves, saying he made the save but looked shaky.
There's a few out there that won't give Smith credit for anything. They want him to fail.
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We're going to have to agree to disagree on that one. People have but I wouldn't say most.
And I've already pointed out that Rittich has earned the right to not be ragged on when he does let in a goal he should have stopped while Smith hasn't.
Unless I missed something, I've been cognisant of people holding that view. There might be a few, but I haven't actually seen that POV written myself.
Smith gets ragged on for nearly every goal because he's a siv, and has single-handedly completely ruined games. Things that infuriate people are more likely to be posted than constant commentary on how people feel during the game.
Rittich letting in a goal you think he could have had is going to elicit much less commentary than Smith letting in yet another goal. And considering his starts... there's a good chance it's following 1-2 that no one is arguing were absolutely awful.
There is also a side to the 'Move Past Smith' party that will be 1000% happy with a great performance and will jump right on-board the optimism train whenever it's powered by results.
I truly would like Gillies to start this one. I understand why they haven't pulled the plug on the '36yo Mike Smith re-building his career' dream, but I'm anxious for them to find a way to give Rittich nights off for the rest of the year here. We all remember the Kipper era, so we should remember how valuable it is to have a backup that can win their schedule of games. When it comes crunch time, and you need those 2 (or 6+) points back, that schedule becomes more and more heavy on your #1.
From everything we've seen, and most worryingly how brief his most recent 'return to form' was, it is more likely that we will get better backup goaltending with Smith out of the lineup and at some point a decision has to be made. With Smith's propensity to subtract 2 points from our potential year-end total all by himself it's a matter of how much rope everyone is willing to give.
Mike Smith doing well is far less important than the Flames doing well to me - and Smith in the net is a worse option than a very large amount of very cheap (and potentially already on our payroll) options.
From everything we have seen it is most likely that Smith will continue to win at least as many games as he loses. All season long he has had some really high-end performances amid some terrible ones—I see no reason to expect that he suddenly now be nothing but awful from here forward, and it is laughable to suggest that the Flames's #3 goalie with worse numbers in an inferior league will be an upgrade.
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Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
Of course some people are. Watch the GT tonight, it will be toxic. There's a handful of posters who I won't name that give the guy the gears even when he makes saves, saying he made the save but looked shaky.
There's a few out there that won't give Smith credit for anything. They want him to fail.
That's an odd way to be a fan!
Whether it was Bourque, or Wideman or Ericsson I hope most of us will celebrate every success they still have. I was happy to see him go, but I'll always remember how great Bourque was outdoors. I hope you can trust that I would LOVE for Smith to bolster our goalie tandem and help continue our great year.
With that said, I don't know if I posted it here... but there have actually been a few times I've not loved a Smith save as well. Hell, I remember a shot wide that Smith was nowhere near and it's stuck with me as a big problem. I'm happy with the Ws, but he is often very slow in my eyes. I've seen great saves and I don't take that away from him - but I do see saves that require more drama than necessary. I see Rittich set to a shooter when I'd expect Smith is sprawling on his chest to face a blue-line shot.
I never felt great with Hiller in net either, even when he was on. I think it's a tough style to get on-board with... and when it's not going well it looks even worse. Smith was also a good goalie in Calgary for a only short time. Maybe his style when he's good (like will be the case with Parsons) is always going to seem more difficult than it needed to be. But from what I'm watching, he sometimes barely makes a save that I think would otherwise be pretty routine.
I think we all see what we want to see a little bit, and I think that applies for the 'Smith will get there' crowd as well.
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's been great, he's had a rough go of it. And I definitely would like to see Tre upgrade that position by the deadline.
I'm just saying there are a handful of posters that I believe do cheer against the guy every time he plays. They're hoping he fails so they can post over and over again how much he sucks or how much they dislike him. It makes the GTs very toxic.
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There are far more examples of players who don't put up good stats in a development league not being able to cut it in the performance league, versus ones who don't but then excel in the NHL.
True, AHL stats aren't the be all end all, but they are good indicator of performance. If Gillies is actually ready to play in the NHL, he will be an exception, not the norm based on his AHL stats. His performance in the AHL to date is indicator that he's likely not ready to play in the NHL, but you are correct in that anything can happen
Of course there are (bold).
But for those that don't follow the Heat, here is their D core (by games played):
Ollas Mattson
Healey
Valiev
Taormina
Hamilton
Paliotta
Nielson
O'Brien
And, again, Gillies has already demonstrated that he can play in the NHL.
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Chaisson's goal the first game against the Oilers. The defense got blamed like they should.
Smith let in a similar goal against both Chicago and Philly and people were on his case about not having his paddle on the ice or his five hole closed.
Ok, I guess.
I can’t be bothered to go look up goals but remember Chiasson cutting cross crease, and remember Toews doing likewise. These were similar goals, both cross crease 5 hole, as I recall. I didn’t have an issue with either.
I also remember a bunch of people praising Smith when Kane ran out of time and space and stuffed a rushed breakaway in to his pad. That was generous to Smith but some people think stopping a breakaway proves something, no matter whether the guy got off the shot he would have wanted .
I don’t recall similar goals against Philly but there were quite s few. That game was a stinker on the whole for him.
Whatever. Some of Smith’s better goals against are similar to some of Rittich’s worst.
Most fans are generally unimpressed with his body of work the last 10 months, resulting in a shorter amount of rope. The only way this changes is building good will with consistency (and the good kind)
Whether it was Bourque, or Wideman or Ericsson I hope most of us will celebrate every success they still have. I was happy to see him go, but I'll always remember how great Bourque was outdoors. I hope you can trust that I would LOVE for Smith to bolster our goalie tandem and help continue our great year.
With that said, I don't know if I posted it here... but there have actually been a few times I've not loved a Smith save as well. Hell, I remember a shot wide that Smith was nowhere near and it's stuck with me as a big problem. I'm happy with the Ws, but he is often very slow in my eyes. I've seen great saves and I don't take that away from him - but I do see saves that require more drama than necessary. I see Rittich set to a shooter when I'd expect Smith is sprawling on his chest to face a blue-line shot.
I never felt great with Hiller in net either, even when he was on. I think it's a tough style to get on-board with... and when it's not going well it looks even worse. Smith was also a good goalie in Calgary for a only short time. Maybe his style when he's good (like will be the case with Parsons) is always going to seem more difficult than it needed to be. But from what I'm watching, he sometimes barely makes a save that I think would otherwise be pretty routine.
I think we all see what we want to see a little bit, and I think that applies for the 'Smith will get there' crowd as well.
No.
NSFW!
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If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
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After this season I hope Smith retires and sticks with the organization in some way. He seems like a genuinely good guy, and I really hope he can impart some of his puck handling skills onto Rittich before he goes. That's the one thing I miss when he's not in net, when he's on his game he will frustrate the hell out of the opposing team by completely nullifying their dump ins
Unfortunately, my side of the fence will likely diminish my perceived impartiality - but I've walked away from games Smith started in thinking "thankfully we started Smith" far less often than I've thought the opposite.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Textcritic
From everything we have seen it is most likely that Smith will continue to win at least as many games as he loses. All season long he has had some really high-end performances amid some terrible ones—I see no reason to expect that he suddenly now be nothing but awful from here forward, [...]
Smith played well 12/6 and 12/8 and then followed up the next 2 with sharts. That's 50/50, and his record ahead of those 4 games is a checkered past of complete failures and the team limiting dangerous scoring opportunities. Tonight will be his opportunity to prove your first statement right, but up to his last 4 starts I would not say that Smith was likely to win at least as many games as he lost.
Back-breaking goals matter. Being forced (Rittich SJ game included) to score in bunches matters. The big saves matters. Smith has not been a reliable goalie this year, and it's not an insistence to say bad things about Smith that fuels that. It's come up on Tim & Sid, I've watched a Leafs podcast talk about it, and it's a topic if the Flames ever come up elsewhere. It's pretty clear that Mike Smith is not playing very well. And at 36yo with an injury that is relevant enough to wonder about... it doesn't take a hockey legend to think that there might be a problem here.
I will get on-board the Mike Smith train when he's playing well, I promise. But right now, I'm on the 'let's see if other options give us better results' train.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Textcritic
and it is laughable to suggest that the Flames's #3 goalie with worse numbers in an inferior league will be an upgrade.
Frankly, I find it laughable that you think Mike Smith hasn't been awful this whole time... let alone 'from here on forward'.
I don't care who the backup goalie is, and his stats in the AHL don't get me all excited either... but I'd like to try anything that could give us a better chance to win than Smith does. If it's not Gillies, so be it.
But until it's Smith, it's not Smith. I'm not so worried about Smith's life journey that I'm willing to give up many more points for him to find his way.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's been great, he's had a rough go of it. And I definitely would like to see Tre upgrade that position by the deadline.
I'm just saying there are a handful of posters that I believe do cheer against the guy every time he plays. They're hoping he fails so they can post over and over again how much he sucks or how much they dislike him. It makes the GTs very toxic.
I probably fall into this group in your mind but I would describe it a different way and I disagree with you saying people cheer for him to fail, and I'd say most of the "Anti-smith" posts aren't anything to do with him but more to do with the fact that for ~35 games this season people on here would defend Smith as the better goaltending option when the eye test and the stats say differently. Pointing out that he makes the easy saves look difficult and can't control a rebound or seem to see the play well isn't hating on him. The posting about smith sucking is in direct response to people saying "hey look at all these anit-smith posts, he just made a save, so he can't suck and he's back to being a #1" while also saying Rittich is unproven. After half a season now, Rittich has proven he deserves a chance to run with the #1 job and smith doesn't. It is pretty cut and dry
Smith is fine as your backup goalie if he gets starts in very select situations and now that the coaching staff seem to have realized that I think a lot of the "anti-smith" noise on here will die down.
I dont think there is anyone who has ever played for this team that I have genuinely loathed more than Anders 'The Ass' Ericsson.
He nearly single-handedly sewered one of the most talented Flames teams assembled.
Boo that man!
I needed to think of someone who would stress my desire to celebrate anything a Flames player does - and I don't think anyone stresses that point more than Anders.
I hate him so much that I didn't even spell his stupid name properly.
At the St Louis game even my 7 year old who had never watched a hockey game before observed (unprovoked) that Smith "was being really hard on himself" after letting that first goal in.
He then started getting "grabby" at the puck rather that let the game come to him.
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Last edited by killer_carlson; 01-02-2019 at 01:07 PM.
Here's December 8 vs the Predators
Smith was .926 with 25 saves on 27 shots
Smith appearances:
0:36 Turnover at the redline
0:47 Nashville attack (and a blueline interception)
1:04 Goal
1:30 Breakaway
2:40 Goal
2:52 Shot off the faceoff
3:59 Shot from the boards
4:12 Preds PP
I know highlights are a poor example of a goaltenders full night, but I think there's parts in there for both parties.
