Mike Smith's... woes? He blows? Eating crows? Who knows! (Also David Rittich exists!)

[Robbob]

I think they are working on it. You can see when he is confident he challenges the shooter and puts himself into positions to make save. The problem is when things start to go south on him he retreats to the goal line and just tries to be big or chases the pucks.

He has had his ups and downs and it seems he just can't keep his confidence at a level that is needed as a goalie right now.

IMO the reason why the team is trying to let him work through it is two-fold.

Firstly, a Mike Smith that can get back to form is an asset because his puck handling skills is a game changer when he is on. He is the best in the league playing the puck and absolutely neutralizes the dump and chase game because he can quickly recover the puck and get it to a dman to start a rush.

Secondly, I don't know if they have an appetite to give up assets for something that isn't a sure thing as an upgrade. Maybe closer to the trade deadline something may come up.

For me, I hit the reset button after the Pittsburgh game as that was the low level point for Smith and the team. From that point you can see that Rittich has been getting more minutes. Probably would have even more if not for that six game run Smith had. So you are seeing shift in the starters job, which I am okay with. He seems to have a great relationship with Rittich. I think the general consensus around those that follow the team is that Rittich is learning a few things from Smith in regards to playing the puck.

Smith numbers since that Pittsburgh game 8-4-1 .901 with GAA of 2.49. That is something to build off of since we are seeing Rittich start to get the bulk of the starts anyways.

[zamler]

Stop playing Smith at home he's a nervous wreck at the 'Dome.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Many have identified this, why doesn't he work to fix it in practice?

This can't just be some kind of "universally accepted" flaw with the player, it's obviously fixable with some coaching and video review, no?

It's one thing to do it in practice, it's another to do it during game time. Smith has a lot of bad goaltending habits that have never been corrected over the years.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by New Era

This argument has gotten a little out of control, where the apologists are suggesting the "He-man Mike Smith Hater Club" is not being logical and not using facts.

The fact that there is a "He-man Mike Smith Hater Club" on a Flames message board strongly suggests that he is not getting a fair shake by a lot of posters.

Well, as one of those members of the "He-man Mike Smith Hater Club" allow me to inject some facts into the argument by letting Mike Smith’s play speak for itself. We’ll call this a critical review of each of Mike Smith performance...

If you were really letting his play speak for itself it would not have been accompanied by your commentary. Since this is commentary provided by a self-professed member of the "He-man Mike Smith Hater Club," it seems likely to be invalidated for the enthusiastic bias.

It’s intriguing to me how some posters are using this thread as a vehicle for their own agenda-driven content: one uses Mike Smith’s poor play as a front for complaining about Brad Treliving; another unabashedly blames Jordan Sigalet for ruining Flames goalies; New Era scoffs at “advanced stats” in a thread that features practically none of them.


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[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

The fact that there is a "He-man Mike Smith Hater Club" on a Flames message board strongly suggests that he is not getting a fair shake by a lot of posters.

Spoken like an apologist? I used the "He-man Mike Smith Haters Club" as a very tongue in cheek way of making fun of the apologists who regularly defend an individual not worthy of defense. It's almost got to the point of the Gulutzan defense last season, and not surprisingly, it is pretty much the same collective rallying behind Smith.

It seems some people arrive at the appropriate conclusions long before others, and proof of that is the whole Glen Gulutzan debacle. It was obvious to most, long before the end of last season, that Gulutzan was crap and holding the team back. But there was still a small but very vocal cadre of Gulutzan supporters who defended the mental midget right until the bitter end. The exact same process is working through the board. Most have already come to the conclusion that Mike Smith is done as a goaltender, but there is a small but very vocal group who is mounting a defense that continues to be proven wrong at every turn.

If you were around during the Gilbert-Savard argument you would have been firmly on the side of Greg Gilbert? I think we know how that argument turned out as well.

If you were really letting his play speak for itself it would not have been accompanied by your commentary.

His play does speak for itself. My commentary is an example of reviewing that play and pointing out the weaknesses exposed. This was to completely head off the usual accusations of being unfair toward Mike Smith. As the commentary displays, Mike Smith gets a fair shake, he's just a bad goaltender.

It’s intriguing to me how some posters are using this thread as a vehicle for their own agenda-driven content: one uses Mike Smith’s poor play as a front for complaining about Brad Treliving; another unabashedly blames Jordan Sigalet for ruining Flames goalies; New Era scoffs at “advanced stats” in a thread that features practically none of them.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by New Era

Spoken like an apologist?...

Ah, yes. “The Apologists.” The segment of posters who universally agree that Mike Smith has been bad this season, and also maintain that there is not much to be done about it.



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[DeluxeMoustache]

Never mind labels such as apologists.

To me it is simple. One of the more frequent posters here argues that past W-L is a reasonable indicator of how a team will perform moving forward with Smith. And has multiple times said he doesn’t see why it wouldn’t continue. That insistence is perplexing to me as it neglects and understanding or appreciation of how those numbers were arrived at.

That poster has conveniently, of course, ignored the point that coaches speak to, that games tighten up down the stretch. I would suggest that the ability of the team to score at will to overcome softies does not project well.

As New Era illustrated (and kudos for putting in the work), Smith wins include:

Outscoring opponents despite poor goaltending
Oct 6 - 7-4 over Van
Nov 1 - 6-5 vs COL
Dec 4 - 9-6 over Jackets
Dec 12 - 6-5 OT over Philly

To me, 11-8-1 doesn’t look as though it is expected to be repeatable if you are including over a third of the wins to be of that sort.

Then there are the ‘any goalie can win this game’ games
Nov 25 - 6-1 vs ARI
Nov 30 - 4-1 vs LA

So over half of the wins he has racked up had practically nothing whatsoever to even do with the goalie.

(Contrast the Smith wins to Rittich’s 1-0, 2-0 and 2-0 losses where he stood on his head)


*I also would also not blame Smith for things that aren’t on him. For example, consider Crosby’s backhander over the shoulder. I have seen some goals where he leaves some room over his glove near the post, where people give credit to the shooter, but are on him. Conversely, this was just a goal that Crosby scores and no goalie stops.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Ah, yes. “The Apologists.” The segment of posters who universally agree that Mike Smith has been bad this season, and also maintain that there is not much to be done about it.

There will be something done about it.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Ah, yes. “The Apologists.”

Maybe it would have been more accurate to call that group the "non-Internet schmucks?" ;-)

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Shazam

There will be something done about it.

Not right now is my guess.

Obviously changes are coming in the summer, but at this point there is very little that can be done right now.

Start Rittich the majority of the time as has been happening for a long while now and hope he continues on his tremendous path, Smith plays the backup role like an average backup does, and the team continues to play well overall. Team stays near or on top of the division/conference.

Not sure what the entire beef is about right now.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by New Era

Maybe it would have been more accurate to call that group the "non-Internet schmucks?" ;-)

Technically that would be Internet non-schmucks

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Shazam

There will be something done about it.

Yes, most likely at the end of the season, which is what Textcritic has said a billion times. The likelihood of Smith being replaced as the backup in-season is low.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by New Era

Maybe it would have been more accurate to call that group the "non-Internet schmucks?" ;-)

That would be wrong because we are all “internet schmucks.” Every single one of us.


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[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

...To me it is simple. One of the more frequent posters here argues that past W-L is a reasonable indicator of how a team will perform moving forward with Smith. And has multiple times said he doesn’t see why it wouldn’t continue. That insistence is perplexing to me as it neglects and understanding or appreciation of how those numbers were arrived at.

Well, no. I am completely aware of how the Flames have managed to continue winning games with Smith allowing bad goals. They do so because they are an excellent team that consistently outplays their opposition. Any number of below-average or average backup goalies will win games behind this team.

That poster has conveniently, of course, ignored the point that coaches speak to, that games tighten up down the stretch. I would suggest that the ability of the team to score at will to overcome softies does not project well.

I am not so much ignoring it as I am thinking that this is something fairly equally applied to every team. The Flames are likely also to “tighten up down the stretch” thus also making scoring more difficult for their opponents. Even if Mike Smith sees a reduction in success and wins only half his games as a result, the team is still in really good shape come playoff time.

As New Era illustrated...

New Era’s review is fine—save for some small disagreements about a couple individual games. I suspect that like every other poster in this thread I also watched all of them, so did not learn anything new from this rehearsal. But I will say this again: amid some bad individual performances over the course of the past month Mike Smith has also had some very good ones. For all the hand-wringing and pejoratives tossed about in this thread, I continue to see NOTHING PERSUASIVE to suggest that BOTH will not continue.

Some people in this thread seem honestly to believe that Smith will never win another game. I am not one of them. I am not peculiarly outraged at the fact that a top team in the Division is still playing two goalies—both of whom continue to win games.




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[zamler]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Some people in this thread seem honestly to believe that Smith will never win another game.

No they don't.

[kukkudo]

Wait so let me get this straight. If Rittch starts to show that he can't handle being a starter, and Smith comes in and is the same old news what will happen? Or Rittch gets injured?

Treliving won't go out and find a goalie till end of the season?

[Spinach]

There isn't much to be done about it now, no, particularly since the league's had a roster freeze since something like the 19th and I guess ends today.

But a lot can change in a month or two. Closer to the deadline last season, Peter Mrazek was dealt for a conditional 4th in the 2018 draft & a conditional 3rd in 2019. Darcy Kuemper went for goalie Scott Wedgewood & pending UFA Tobias Reider. In November '17, Louis Domingue was traded for Leighton (!). And there were a couple of minor moves involving 3rd-stringer types.

The question isn't whether there's anything to be done; it's whether there's an upgrade on Mike Smith available without coughing up too much. I think giving up a 1st is way too much, and we don't have a 2nd this season, although it's possible the Flames' 2020 2nd-rounder would be in play, as might a C/LW prospect like a Koumontzis since the team is flush with B-type forward prospects at those positions. And then, of course, they'd likely have to include a roster player even if it's just to make cap room.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

Wait so let me get this straight. If Rittch starts to show that he can't handle being a starter, and Smith comes in and is the same old news what will happen? Or Rittch gets injured?

Treliving won't go out and find a goalie till end of the season?

I think there are a couple of things that will make it difficult to acquire a goalie before the deadline

- Impossible to move Smith
- Lack of goalies available as long as teams are still in it


I think approaching the deadline there will be options available, and it may be even possible to move Smith and his salary to accommodate such a deal

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

Wait so let me get this straight. If Rittch starts to show that he can't handle being a starter, and Smith comes in and is the same old news what will happen? Or Rittch gets injured?

Treliving won't go out and find a goalie till end of the season?

Neither of which are a high-probability scenario at this point. But I think everyone would assume that Treliving would try to make a move if that happens.

If things continue on the current course, likely no-change.

The discussion is when you address the backup role, not the starter role. If Rittich completely falls apart or gets injured, you're then addressing a completely different issue than Mike Smith the backup. One that's definitely urgent.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Not right now is my guess.

Obviously changes are coming in the summer, but at this point there is very little that can be done right now.

Start Rittich the majority of the time as has been happening for a long while now and hope he continues on his tremendous path, Smith plays the backup role like an average backup does, and the team continues to play well overall. Team stays near or on top of the division/conference.

Not sure what the entire beef is about right now.

Something will happen before trade deadline day. The presence of so many high-point teams this year means there's a lot of low point teams that are going to sell.