Mike Smith's... woes? He blows? Eating crows? Who knows! (Also David Rittich exists!)

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by 1991 Canadian

If he's not keeping us from the playoffs and won't be a key part of the playoffs, why are we getting so worked up about it?

The problem is if Rittich goes down with an injury, especially come playoff time. Smith in net for the playoffs just terrify me. It'll be pretty much Elliot game 4 vs. the Ducks from two seasons ago.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

The problem is if Rittich goes down with an injury, especially come playoff time. Smith in net for the playoffs just terrify me. It'll be pretty much Elliot game 4 vs. the Ducks from two seasons ago.

Sure but how many teams can boast they love their playoff chances if their starter goes down?

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Has he won the games or was it the team that won inspite of his efforts? If the team can't put up more than 2 goals, its a loss because he's good for 2 garbage goals per game.

In 8 of his 11 wins he's let in 2 goals or less. If any team needs their goalie to pitch a shutout or only let in one goal every game they're in trouble.

They've had to win games in spite of him but I wouldn't say letting in two goals is needing your team to bail you out.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Has he won the games or was it the team that won inspite of his efforts? If the team can't put up more than 2 goals, its a loss because he's good for 2 garbage goals per game.

His save percentage in the majority of his wins suggests he was a big part of those wins. Those include a couple shutouts and a handful of games where he only let in 1 goal.

Not defending him, but for the sake of accuracy.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Sure but how many teams can boast they love their playoff chances if their starter goes down?

Not many would be boastful about their playoff chances, that's for sure. But how many would be in as concerning a position as the Flames would? Most teams are reasonably confident that they can carry on with the backup. Not sure the Flames are currently in that position.

[Ryan Coke]

Actually, you are defending him. (PepsiFree^^^)

So the question is do you or don’t you believe his play has been too often not good enough? He has some good games, and most people aren’t arguing that, but when your bad games outnumber your strong games, and more specifically absolutely brutal goals have gone in probably 10 times this year, there is a problem regardless of how you try to spin the numbers.

So either you are arguing that his play is good in spite of the exceptionally weak goals, or you agree that his performance has been substandard.

It’s like arguing if the team loses 2-1, even if the 2 goals against were stinkers, that the team had no business winning if they didn’t score 3. It’s ok to win 1-0, or 2-1 if the team allows single digit scoring chances, you don’t need to try to rationalize why the goaltender didn’t play that badly.

There is a middle between people that want to send Mike Smith home today because he is completely useless, and the people that rationalize and defend his play, then say ‘but I’m not defending his play’.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Sure but how many teams can boast they love their playoff chances if their starter goes down?

That's like saying how many football teams would love their championship chances without their starting QB. Obviously every team would expect decline but I can name a few that would still have a good chance in; Winnipeg, Nashville, Boston, Anaheim. Believe it or not a lot of teams have backup goaltenders that can make stops that an average goaltender is expected to make. The Flames having a goaltender that lets in a soft goal on a per game basis is more than anomaly than the norm.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Not many would be boastful about their playoff chances, that's for sure. But how many would be in as concerning a position as the Flames would? Most teams are reasonably confident that they can carry on with the backup. Not sure the Flames are currently in that position.

Smith has at least done it. Will he again? I don't know.

But looking at contenders?

Leafs ... Sparks
Lightning ... Dominque
Jets ... Brossoit

I'd have those three teams in a rough spot without a starter, especially Toronto as they rely on Andersson so much.

Predators are good with Saros but I can't think of another contender save for maybe Boston that's in good shape.

[EldrickOnIce]

No, it not defending. It's simply being accurate.
Hyperbole is not required.

Mike Smith has not been good. Everyone is in agreement. No one is defending his play. Some are just pointing out that you don't need to make #### up to prove it.
The only question remains is whether or not Treliving pulls the trigger on a deal, or hopes the Flames either generally continue to score their way out of his poor play or that his play will improve.
Smith has already gone from starter to 50/50 to backup in a short period.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Smith has at least done it. Will he again? I don't know.

But looking at contenders?

Leafs ... Sparks
Lightning ... Dominque
Jets ... Brossoit

I'd have those three teams in a rough spot without a starter, especially Toronto as they rely on Andersson so much.

Predators are good with Saros but I can't think of another contender save for maybe Boston that's in good shape.

Well Domingue is 15-4-0, Brossoit is 8-1-1, and Sparks is 5-1-1 so I am guessing those teams aren't quite as concerned as the Flames. Though I would imagine of the three, the Leafs have the most concern, and are the closest to the Flames in that regard, simply due to the lack of work so far with Sparks.

This argument that all teams are in the same boat just doesn't hold water.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

No, it not defending. It's simply being accurate.
Hyperbole is not required.

Mike Smith has not been good. Everyone is in agreement. No one is defending his play. Some are just pointing out that you don't need to make #### up to prove it.
The only question remains is whether or not Treliving pulls the trigger on a deal, or hopes the Flames either generally continue to score their way out of his poor play or that his play will improve.
Smith has already gone from starter to 50/50 to backup in a short period.

This 100%

There are plenty of valid critiques of Smith and questions surrounding the Flames goaltending situation that this steady stream of hyperbole and dramatics just looks ridiculous.

Everyone is in agreement, the only disagreements are between people stretching the truth to backup their concern and those looking at the facts.

[Ryan Coke]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

No, it not defending. It's simply being accurate.
Hyperbole is not required.

Mike Smith has not been good. Everyone is in agreement. No one is defending his play. Some are just pointing out that you don't need to make #### up to prove it.
The only question remains is whether or not Treliving pulls the trigger on a deal, or hopes the Flames either generally continue to score their way out of his poor play or that his play will improve.
Smith has already gone from starter to 50/50 to backup in a short period.

Yeah, and that is totally reasonable. But arguing a bunch of stats to say he really isn’t that bad, when most people can see that he has struggled mightily is the same extreme as saying he should get a one way ticket to Stockton.

He has been bad, everyone should know it, we don’t need to spin some numbers to say he hasn’t been. The real question is now what should the team do about? There are reasons why nothing may be the right answer, but it doesn’t diminish the way Smith has played thus far this year.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Ryan Coke

Yeah, and that is totally reasonable. But arguing a bunch of stats to say he really isn’t that bad, when most people can see that he has struggled mightily is the same extreme as saying he should get a one way ticket to Stockton.

He has been bad, everyone should now it, we don’t need to spin some numbers to say he hasn’t been. The real question is now what should the team do about? There are reasons why nothing may be the right answer, but it doesn’t diminish the way Smith has played thus far this year.

But nobody is saying he hasn’t been bad, at all. Just not as bad as the dramatics suggest.

[sa226]

I think its safe to say that we have an issue with Smith.

We all want to vent our frustrations by launching him into the sun. Those perceived to be defending him, I think are more defending the situation.

Treliving can't just go out tomorrow and trade a 7th round pick for a reliable backup. It doesn't work that way. Even if we could acquire a new goalie, does Smith go the other way? If you can't send Smith the other way, what do you do with him? Down to Stockton? Its not that easy either.

Even with as aweful as he's been, I think he is regarded as part of the veteran leadership group, and an important guy in the room.

My next point, I think is the absolute biggest factor in the whole Smith situation. The biggest blemish on Rittich's record is the complete mental failure to carry the load down the stretch last season. I think the organization privately would be willing to admit that Rittich is the new #1. But they are doing everything they can to insulate and protect him. If all of a sudden Rittich falls apart, then we really are hooped.

That's how I see it anyway.



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[Enoch Root]

Ah, so the people opposed to you in the discussion are stretching the facts, while the people taking a similar view are just looking at the facts.

Okay then.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by sa226

I think its safe to say that we have an issue with Smith.

We all want to vent our frustrations by launching him into the sun. Those perceived to be defending him, I think are more defending the situation.

Treliving can't just go out tomorrow and trade a 7th round pick for a reliable backup. It doesn't work that way. Even if we could acquire a new goalie, does Smith go the other way? If you can't send Smith the other way, what do you do with him? Down to Stockton? Its not that easy either.

Even with as aweful as he's been, I think he is regarded as part of the veteran leadership group, and an important guy in the room.

My next point, I think is the absolute biggest factor in the whole Smith situation. The biggest blemish on Rittich's record is the complete mental failure to carry the load down the stretch last season. I think the organization privately would be willing to admit that Rittich is the new #1. But they are doing everything they can to insulate and protect him. If all of a sudden Rittich falls apart, then we really are hooped.

That's how I see it anyway.



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Agreed on all points, but the bold in particular. The situation is very tenuous, but doing something sensible about it (not just over-reacting) will be very difficult.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Bingo

...Predators are good with Saros but I can't think of another contender save for maybe Boston that's in good shape.

Jusse Saros has a 3.85 GAA and a 0.895 SP. His record is very similar to Mike Smith’s. One of the reasons most backups are not starters is because they run so hot and cold. They will look like world beaters for a stretch, and then on the turn of a dime will drop a bunch of games and appear like they will never again regain their form. I suspect that goalies like Sparks and Broissoit will again see stretches in which they struggle.




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[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

I think part of the problem is fans are looking for some sort of difinitive answer from the Flames that they feel Rittich is the number one. Even going back a few posts up where one poster is speculating the Flames are not anointing #1 Rittich as a tactic to hopefully prevent melt down on Rittich’s part like last year.

I don’t doubt the org is leery of that, but at the end of the day it’s actually only the fans that need some deceleration on who the number one is, and there is no point making a statement. The NHL is a different place now when it comes to goaltending. The team and most teams use both goalies. I think it’s obvious right now the the Flames have more confidence in Rittich right now, but there’s no need or advantage in declaring him a number 1. He’ll get his starts, as will Smith, and we need them both playing as well as they can, the who is declared number o e is a fan concern only.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Insistence is the most important thing for goaltending. Mike Smith provides to consistency in his game, and if you are looking for a trend, it is on the side of poor play. Bottom line is you can’t have a goaltender who throws games away with bad play. Elliott was jettisoned for that very reason, and he was no where near as bad as Smith. Mike Smith May have two shutouts, but he’s lost five games on his own bad play. You expect your goaltender to lay an egg here and there, but those are balanced out by some exceptional play. Smith owes us several game stealing performances, and he provides no confidence that he can do that.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Smith is this year’s Gultuzan. The same rationalizing of inaction is happening again (often by the same characters), and we’re again in a position where ignoring the seemingly obvious is risking our season. Even if the risk itself is different, we all know he’s holding us back from reaching full potential, and we all know change needs to be made to move forward...it’s just a matter of when. No, there are no perfect goalies to replace with him with him, and the cost may be high, but you can’t just waste another year due to fear of the unknown. Like with Peters, there’s no guarantee the replacement will be better. But it’s hard to imagine it can get worse.

The season won’t be a write-off with Smith, but it sure can be a big missed opportunity in a league where windows come and go fast. We already wasted a year, let’s not be stupid enough to do it again.

Like with Peters, the best course of action is probably hold for now and wait to make an upgrade in the off-season. The options will be better, and the cost likely much less prohibitive.


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