[Signing] Flames sign James Neal (5 years, 5.75 AAV)

[Kipper_3434]

What pisses me off is that we didn't need to buy out Brouwer. When we did i hoped against all reason that we were close to landing Tavares. Then we got Neal. People will argue semantics but the Brouwer buyout essentially makes Neal's contract worth 7.25m per, for the first four years. That's unacceptable to me. IF Tre hadn't made the Hanifin trade I think Tre would be looking for a new job in the very near future. As it stands now, we're winning, thank god. Or this thread would be a lot harsher. Praise be.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

No he didn't. Good debate.

Yes he did. He was so god awful and he hurt the team because of his inability to do anything at any kind of any NHL level. He was so bad that he couldn't even displace a done Stajan, a done Brouwer and a crappy Lazar, or a crappy Hathaway for that matter from a regular lineup spot.

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by Karl

Freddie is so terrible that he isn't even playing hockey anywhere at all this year.

He's probably Dougie's roommate in Carolina.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Karl

Yes he did. He was so god awful and he hurt the team because of his inability to do anything at any kind of any NHL level. He was so bad that he couldn't even displace a done Stajan, a done Brouwer and a crappy Lazar from a regular lineup spot.

Not being able to replace a regular isn't the standard for a guy acquired to be a designated sitter. You might as well say Mangiapane hurt the team too, since he was equally unable to displace those guys.

You can't seem to point to an instance where Hamilton on the ice did harm. Hamilton was a guy who didn't need to develop in the A, could be called in on short notice and wasn't going to put the puck in his own net. Not a high bar, but he wasn't paid well.

But let's say you are right - he actually "harmed" the team because he didn't have the team sit a $3M player in Stajan. So what? He was a relatively short term, low cost, hire.

Those are the kind of players teams run with and dump all the time. Have a look at the team Calgary is playing tonight and look at their roster through the last 5 years. Count the number of bottom 3 forwards they've signed or gotteen via trade and who are now playing out of the NHL or not at all.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You didn't need to mention Monahan. He's the type of player you describe as undesireable as a target for trade or UFA.

As for your list, Hiller was widely seen as a win in year one. Jokipaaka was a decent player - he was just expendable (as would Russell have been). There was nothing really wrong with Hamilton as a bench sitter. Your complaints are mostly about bottom level or less guys who were acquired to fill low level roles. Mainly guys like Lack or Grossman were cheap insurance. Frankly I still think every team will have a list like that - lower level guys who were tried and didn't pan out.

And you will have to forgive me if I don't bemoan the loss of Sven and Granlund. Neither was going to make it here. And I think that Rasmus is worth more than Sven.

Your first sentence is just pure garbage. Let’s get that straight.

As for the list. In just a few short years, that’s a laundry list of mistakes that speaks to a bigger problem which is trust. Can you trust the scouts to make the right decisions when they’re not doing their job properly. You might think that these are small mistakes, but there’s a lot of salary right now tied up to inefficient and ineffective players. There has to be a certain standard that should be met for all parts of the organization and personally, I don’t think they’ve up to par.

Thank goodness Treliving has done a great job of re-signing guys to very palatable deals. Also, the amateur scouts are doing a terrific job relatively speaking. They’ve done outstanding work and are in my opinion, one of the biggest reasons as to why this team is sitting where it’s at currently.

There’s no need to bemoan any of those moves. But we traded an NHLer for a career minor leaguer, that’s a strike. Granlund currently has more goals and points than any one of Ryan, Czarnik or Neal and at a very reasonable cap hit. Also, if we still had Sven Baertschi, we probably wouldn’t have Neal and his potentially albatross contract. Paul Byron speaks for itself. Rasmus was a great pick no doubt. But like I said, our amateur scouts do good work. No problem with them.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

What pisses me off is that we didn't need to buy out Brouwer. When we did i hoped against all reason that we were close to landing Tavares. Then we got Neal. People will argue semantics but the Brouwer buyout essentially makes Neal's contract worth 7.25m per, for the first four years. That's unacceptable to me. IF Tre hadn't made the Hanifin trade I think Tre would be looking for a new job in the very near future. As it stands now, we're winning, thank god. Or this thread would be a lot harsher. Praise be.

The Neal signing and Brouwer buyout are absolutely linked IMO. Buying out Brouwer was necessary to sign Neal.

Now I think you are being a little hard on Treliving. I have never been his biggest fan but you have to credit him with the results on the ice so far this year. A combination of the Carolina trade, a solid coaching staff, emergence of some young players and further development of our young stars are all under his watch and I give him the credit, full stop.

Like you I’m worried about the Neal contract/ Brouwer buyout and particularly how it may limit what the club can do in future years. But let’s enjoy the good times and see where it takes us.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

He's playing on the 4th line. A 19 goal pace for a forward who players 11 minutes a game is extremely impressive. Even if slows down and ends with 15 is still excellent. If the Flames had a 4th liner who could hit that mark, there's no doubt we'd be a Stanley Cup contender. Imagine how much better this team would be if Garnet Hathaway could score almost 20 goals this season.

I would put money on Brouwer not hitting 15 goals this year.

Are you trying to tell me the Florida Panthers are a Stanley Cup contender because they have Troy Brouwer on the 4th line? They’re in 25th place in the league.

[Travis Munroe]

Go around the league and ask a fan from every team..... they all have a bad contract or 2 or 5. I don't know if there is a GM who doesn't have one on his books and is somewhat competitive.

Tre is good for 1 bad contract at a time and we don't even know if Neal is a bad contract. Watch the guy turn into a beast as some players elevate their game then. Perhaps Neal has been dealing with some nagging injury.

Just as I argued for Mike Smith, my belief is a player doesn't play a consistent way for countless years and then fall off a cliff. It is a gradual death out of the league. Something is up with Neal (his shooting % is another indicator) and I can't wait for what I expect a deep playoff run where he is more engaged and loved by the fans.

[442scotty]

The thing for me about Neal , if he is so good how come no team keeps him very long... I was hopeful when he was signed. Now I’m hoping they trade him. A bag of pucks in return works for me

[rhino]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

What pisses me off is that we didn't need to buy out Brouwer. When we did i hoped against all reason that we were close to landing Tavares. Then we got Neal. People will argue semantics but the Brouwer buyout essentially makes Neal's contract worth 7.25m per, for the first four years. That's unacceptable to me. IF Tre hadn't made the Hanifin trade I think Tre would be looking for a new job in the very near future. As it stands now, we're winning, thank god. Or this thread would be a lot harsher. Praise be.

I am sorry I thought you said you thought the Flames were close to signing Tavares. 😂

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by rhino

I am sorry I thought you said you thought the Flames were close to signing Tavares. 😂

"Hoped against all reason" good talk troll

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by bax

I would put money on Brouwer not hitting 15 goals this year.

Are you trying to tell me the Florida Panthers are a Stanley Cup contender because they have Troy Brouwer on the 4th line? They’re in 25th place in the league.

Who said that? I said if our team had a 19 goal 4th liner, we’d be a Stanley Cup contender. Florida isn’t deep enough and the injury to Trocheck pretty much kills their season.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Your first sentence is just pure garbage. Let’s get that straight.

As for the list. In just a few short years, that’s a laundry list of mistakes that speaks to a bigger problem which is trust. Can you trust the scouts to make the right decisions when they’re not doing their job properly. You might think that these are small mistakes, but there’s a lot of salary right now tied up to inefficient and ineffective players. There has to be a certain standard that should be met for all parts of the organization and personally, I don’t think they’ve up to par.

Thank goodness Treliving has done a great job of re-signing guys to very palatable deals. Also, the amateur scouts are doing a terrific job relatively speaking. They’ve done outstanding work and are in my opinion, one of the biggest reasons as to why this team is sitting where it’s at currently.

There’s no need to bemoan any of those moves. But we traded an NHLer for a career minor leaguer, that’s a strike. Granlund currently has more goals and points than any one of Ryan, Czarnik or Neal and at a very reasonable cap hit. Also, if we still had Sven Baertschi, we probably wouldn’t have Neal and his potentially albatross contract. Paul Byron speaks for itself. Rasmus was a great pick no doubt. But like I said, our amateur scouts do good work. No problem with them.

It's not pure garbage, it's what you were saying. Go look at your own post about shooters. Or were you only decrying shooters who you don't like?

If you had Sven you wouldn't have Rasmus. And Sven would be in the AHL. Granlund has more points because he's on a weak team with no one ahead of him. I'd trade him for Czarnik, but not Neal or Ryan. And the "career minor leaguer" had barely been in the league. Did it turn out well? Nah. But the point is that every team has these. Look at Vancouver if you like. Look at their UFAs and trades. Look at TB (which you ignored). Look at the cup winners.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It's not pure garbage, it's what you were saying. Go look at your own post about shooters. Or were you only decrying shooters who you don't like?

If you had Sven you wouldn't have Rasmus. And Sven would be in the AHL. Granlund has more points because he's on a weak team with no one ahead of him. I'd trade him for Czarnik, but not Neal or Ryan. And the "career minor leaguer" had barely been in the league. Did it turn out well? Nah. But the point is that every team has these. Look at Vancouver if you like. Look at their UFAs and trades. Look at TB (which you ignored). Look at the cup winners.

It is garbage because you’re putting words in my mouth. I said specifically players who’ve scored on OTHER teams. Just because a guy fits on one team, doesn’t mean his style will automatically fit or mesh with our current team. Monahan already has proven chemistry with Gaudreau and they can score on the rush. That’s our strength. Do James Neal or Troy Brouwer strike you as the types who can skate fast enough to score on the rush with Gaudreau? No, that’s why I don’t think they have any chemistry together.

Dude, you’re reaching hard. Baertschi in the AHL right now? No one ahead of Granlund? He’s 9th on his team in scoring and would be 10th if Baertschi didn’t miss 2 months + of the season. Shinkaruk for Granlund was an awful trade. Just like giving up a 2nd for Lazar is as well. If you’d like to go through every team’s makes and misses to prove me wrong, go for it. All I’m doing is looking at this team and judging from my point of view.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

It is garbage because you’re putting words in my mouth. I said specifically players who’ve scored on OTHER teams. Just because a guy fits on one team, doesn’t mean his style will automatically fit or mesh with our current team. Monahan already has proven chemistry with Gaudreau and they can score on the rush. That’s our strength. Do James Neal or Troy Brouwer strike you as the types who can skate fast enough to score on the rush with Gaudreau? No, that’s why I don’t think they have any chemistry together.

Dude, you’re reaching hard. Baertschi in the AHL right now? No one ahead of Granlund? He’s 9th on his team in scoring and would be 10th if Baertschi didn’t miss 2 months + of the season. Shinkaruk for Granlund was an awful trade. Just like giving up a 2nd for Lazar is as well. If you’d like to go through every team’s makes and misses to prove me wrong, go for it. All I’m doing is looking at this team and judging from my point of view.

Sven and Granlund play on Vancouver. You can't judge either their role or their points as if they were playing here.

[David Struch]

I like what they were saying about James "The Real Deal" Neal in the second intermission, how he gets better as the games get bigger.

31 goals in 100 playoff games ain't too shabby.

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/james-neal

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by David Struch

I like what they were saying about James "The Real Deal" Neal in the second intermission, how he gets better as the games get bigger.

31 goals in 100 playoff games ain't too shabby.

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/james-neal

I think the issue is both an age and misuse thing. Why Ryan sits in his position for one timers on PP.

Hope I’m wrong but looks a bit like the lucid contract, too much money for a guy who can’t skate and isn’t a fit

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by David Struch

I like what they were saying about James "The Real Deal" Neal in the second intermission, how he gets better as the games get bigger.

31 goals in 100 playoff games ain't too shabby.

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/james-neal

Every year he has made the playoffs with the exception of one year Neal scored less goals per game in the playoffs than he did in the regular season, overall he scores at about 80 percent of the pace at which he scored in the regular season.

[David Struch]

17 for 52 in the shootout.

[JT96912]

How bout Neal actively costing 2 goals tonight because he is slow and not interested. Look at the replays of the goals. 5.7 mil. Could of been a min contract that did more. PATHETIC!