2018/2019 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Are you suggesting that we re-sign both Hamonic and Brodie to long term deals? Are you suggesting we let them walk to free agency

I am saying that if this core has a chance to win the 2020 Stanley Cup, we don't let pre-emptive asset management override that.

Maybe we do re-sign a Brodie to a team-friendly deal. If anyone on this roster is going to be an effective ~34 year old in the year 2025 it's probably the guy with some of the best edges and jets on the roster.

Putting all your eggs in the young D basket is highly dangerous. Look at guys like Aaron Ekblad, Jack Johnson, Tyler Myers, Jay Bouwmeester, and Dion Phaneuf; they looked like worldbeaters at a younger age playing a more sheltered role with a veteran partner. That's Noah Hanifin right now. When asked to play a true top pair role they faltered and the weak areas of their skills were exposed.

Brodie is a true top pair D. He was a top pair D in 2015 playoffs when he led us in icetime through our only series win since 2004. He was a top pair D in 2017 playoffs when his pair with the underwhelming Stone did better against the Ducks than even the Predators' revered Josi-Ellis pair or Edmonton's actual top pair of Klefbom-Larsson. And he's absolutely been a top pair D playing his natural right side with Mark Giordano forming consistently one of the best D pairs I have ever witnessed. Top pair D don't grow on trees. We may not have another future top pair D in our system no matter how high we are on Hanifin or Valimaki or Kylington or Andersson.

And if one of them, say Hanifin, is a top pair D. Well you need two top pair D and Hanifin-Brodie may be a pairing when Brodie is 35 and Hanifin is 28... kinda like Gio and Brodie are right now. Brodie is not expendable unless and until someone actually, and obviously makes him expendable. Which is a tall order, this is a guy who a few years ago was being talked about as a future Norris candidate before Gulutzan came in.

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I think to sign tkachuk you have to move brodie.

No, to sign Tkachuk you have to move Frolik, Neal, Stone, or Ryan. Brodie is a guy overperforming his current deal. That's the last guy you "have" to move. And yes you will probably have to package a 1st with Mangiapane or Czarnik or Gillies with Stone et al and take the hit to your depth to get it done. It is what it is. UFA signings have not been kind to us. Our own drafted guys have.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I refer you to a classic (paraphrasing) CliffFletcher post about discussing prospects:

It's too Soon
It's too Soon
It's too Soon
It's too Soon
Never speak of it again

Hahah, yeah it's selective with him. Issue with minorities/young people/other cultures - "let's discuss how this is changing the world for the worse in absolutes for pages. Issues with conservative white culture - "It's too soon and not right to talk about and besides there's nothing wrong, what are you talking about?".

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

What about Andersson? I could see him playing with Giordano for sure.

Andersson is to Brodie as Bennett is to Tkachuk

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Brodie will be a 5.5-6.5 million dollar defender, there's just no room on the roster for him at that cap hit.

The point of speculating now is the news article that the flames are actively shopping a defender.

All kinds of options - way too soon or one-dimensional to say there is no room for him.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by jayswin

What's with all these "stop talking about things down the road" posts lately? We're fans, not players or management. It's a message board, there's no karma, there's no getting ahead of ourselves to the detriment of performance.

It's just discussion, it goes somewhere or it doesn't and the posts/thread falls.

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I refer you to a classic (paraphrasing) CliffFletcher post about discussing prospects:

It's too Soon
It's too Soon
It's too Soon
It's too Soon
Never speak of it again

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

All kinds of options - way too soon or one-dimensional to say there is no room for him.

you could set your watch to it.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

you could set your watch to it.

set your watch to what?

You said there will be no room on the roster for Brodie, due to cap reasons. I responded to that because I disagree.

You guys whine about people saying it's way too soon to discuss something that will be an issue in 3 years - that this is a discussion board and we should discuss. Then if someone disagrees with your assertion, you resort to childish garbage.

Hypocritical, and useless.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I am saying that if this core has a chance to win the 2020 Stanley Cup, we don't let pre-emptive asset management override that.

Maybe we do re-sign a Brodie to a team-friendly deal. If anyone on this roster is going to be an effective ~34 year old in the year 2025 it's probably the guy with some of the best edges and jets on the roster.

Putting all your eggs in the young D basket is highly dangerous. Look at guys like Aaron Ekblad, Jack Johnson, Tyler Myers, Jay Bouwmeester, and Dion Phaneuf; they looked like worldbeaters at a younger age playing a more sheltered role with a veteran partner. That's Noah Hanifin right now. When asked to play a true top pair role they faltered and the weak areas of their skills were exposed.

Brodie is a true top pair D. He was a top pair D in 2015 playoffs when he led us in icetime through our only series win since 2004. He was a top pair D in 2017 playoffs when his pair with the underwhelming Stone did better against the Ducks than even the Predators' revered Josi-Ellis pair or Edmonton's actual top pair of Klefbom-Larsson. And he's absolutely been a top pair D playing his natural right side with Mark Giordano forming consistently one of the best D pairs I have ever witnessed. Top pair D don't grow on trees. We may not have another future top pair D in our system no matter how high we are on Hanifin or Valimaki or Kylington or Andersson.

And if one of them, say Hanifin, is a top pair D. Well you need two top pair D and Hanifin-Brodie may be a pairing when Brodie is 35 and Hanifin is 28... kinda like Gio and Brodie are right now. Brodie is not expendable unless and until someone actually, and obviously makes him expendable. Which is a tall order, this is a guy who a few years ago was being talked about as a future Norris candidate before Gulutzan came in.



No, to sign Tkachuk you have to move Frolik, Neal, Stone, or Ryan. Brodie is a guy overperforming his current deal. That's the last guy you "have" to move. And yes you will probably have to package a 1st with Mangiapane or Czarnik or Gillies with Stone et al and take the hit to your depth to get it done. It is what it is. UFA signings have not been kind to us. Our own drafted guys have.

We will disagree here.

First the list of players to suggest we move to sign Tkachuk is agreeable to Flames fans but you think you could move any of those salaries without taking equal cap hits back is dreaming. Is Derek Ryan and his $3M+ movable for a pick? Then you talk about gutting our prospect pool further to get rid of these mistakes? Literally trying to slam the window closed.

I have my doubts Brodie is looking to take a similar deal for his retirement. The Flames need to think about keeping this window open and in my opinion they need to pick which late 20’s/early 30’s they will keep. Gio and Backlund made sense and are signed. I think the guy they choose is Hamonic. Hamonic wants to be here (requested a trade to Western Canada) , is a right shot, and brings a physical element we need on this team.

I know we won’t change each other’s mind but when I look at this team I see Brodie as a player that will bring in future assets that we need to remain competitive when guys like Guadreai and Monahan approach their 30’s. We won’t be able to keep everyone and those choices likely start next summer when Brodie and Hamonic come up for contract extensions as they turn 30 entering their next contracts.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

you could set your watch to it.

In two years:

-Brodie and Hamonic are UFA.
-Stone and Frolik are UFA.
-Kylington and Andersson are off their ELCs.
-The cap will likely see another increase by a few million dollars.

We basically have to sign most of our defence corps after that 2nd year. So yeah, I'd say it's pretty soon to judge who's going and who's not, when clearly Treliving had flexibility and long-term management in mind when setting out the terms of these contracts.

You strike me as a person without a lot of patience. That's fine, but don't mock others for showing some.

[Jason14h]

Flames play well for 20 games. Let trade all our guys because of what might happen in 3 years

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

They also made the decision to move out an excellent defenseman in Campbell and arguably never recovered, eventually filling his spot with Oduya but never quite being as good as they were with Campbell in his prime.




?

When a Chicago traded Campbell he was past his prime.

They won two Stanley Cups with Oduya playing a huge role. The recovery went very nicely.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by Husky

Doesnt need wheels - everyone still hets a ride.

[FlamesAddiction]

I can see Detroit making a push for Brodie. Brodie grew up in the area and is very active in his home town still. He seems like a very family oriented person. They might want him in hopes that they can sign him to a reasonable contract. And they can probably use a player like him while they re-tool and grow.

Just throwing this out there, but would anyone offer a package involving Brodie, Smith and a prospect/pick for Howard and Kronwall? It would be a rental situation for us, but adds a lot of playoff experience, addresses goaltending and adds toughness on the blue line.

[Vinny01]

I don’t see why the Flames would consider breaking up their d corp during this season. I think they are likely to stand pat or we see guys like Foo, Mangiapane, Gillies, and later picks dangled for rentals. I could see Ferland brought back, or a Maroon type brought in for the playoffs. If Stone and Valimaki come back they are 8 deep on the blueline so potentially they would get some cheap depth but not necessarily.

[oldschoolcalgary]

not really trade talk per se, but Dubas seems fairly confident about not getting offer sheeted because "there are other RFA out there"...

the difference is that other teams don't have the same number of top end players needing a contract, nor do they have a franchise player like Matthews.... Tkachuk should be on people's radar, but i honestly don't think it will get to that point...

Personally, if i were say, the NYI or the Coyotes, I would definitely offer sheet Matthews. Not too sure what it is about the NHL, but offer sheets are pretty rare... but as Edmonton had demonstrated, getting a guy like Matthews would be worth the 4 #1 picks.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

No, I present it like Hamonic's skill set is less common on the Flames than Brodie's. I think you underestimate Hamonic's impact. IMO he allows Hanifin to be Hanifin, in addition to his own play. He is tremendously underrated for his first pass. He skates it out decently when it's required. He's second to none on the boards.

I think Hanifin is a Brodie in training. Valimaki and Kylington as well. I just don't see a Hamonic in training.

Not to wade into the trade debate but just on Hamonic. Totally agree with his first pass. Hamonic uses the middle so well, he's great at making that 8 ft pass to a forward.

This is due to Peters' system. Last year, you rarely, if ever, saw Hamonic (defencemen) use the middle to transition. The puck was meant to go D to D and then up the wall and it was/is a testament to Hamonic's and the team's ... coachability. They played the way the coach wanted and stayed on script (totally parroting the coaches message in interviews etc).

This year? Hitting guys in stride and generally just up in the play and looking to put pucks on net. Layer in all those other attributes to his game and you can see how big he is to this year's team.

[kukkudo]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

not really trade talk per se, but Dubas seems fairly confident about not getting offer sheeted because "there are other RFA out there"...

the difference is that other teams don't have the same number of top end players needing a contract, nor do they have a franchise player like Matthews.... Tkachuk should be on people's radar, but i honestly don't think it will get to that point...

Personally, if i were say, the NYI or the Coyotes, I would definitely offer sheet Matthews. Not too sure what it is about the NHL, but offer sheets are pretty rare... but as Edmonton had demonstrated, getting a guy like Matthews would be worth the 4 #1 picks.

If I was Arizona I would throw a 14M offer sheet. I agree getting a player like him will change that franchise it would be worth the picks.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Flames play well for 20 games. Let trade all our guys because of what might happen in 3 years

It's fun to speculate. Also the team actually has a gaggle of useful players so there's a real chance we might lose someone that doesn't suck.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Just throwing this out there, but would anyone offer a package involving Brodie, Smith and a prospect/pick for Howard and Kronwall? It would be a rental situation for us, but adds a lot of playoff experience, addresses goaltending and adds toughness on the blue line.

Howard and Kronwall? what year is it? would a 34 year old goalie and a 37 year old defenseman make up for the loss of one half of the best defensive pair in the NHL?

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Just throwing this out there, but would anyone offer a package involving Brodie, Smith and a prospect/pick for Howard and Kronwall? It would be a rental situation for us, but adds a lot of playoff experience, addresses goaltending and adds toughness on the blue line.

Guys, I think we found Ken Holland’s account.

[Abatedmean]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I don’t see why the Flames would consider breaking up their d corp during this season. I think they are likely to stand pat or we see guys like Foo, Mangiapane, Gillies, and later picks dangled for rentals. I could see Ferland brought back, or a Maroon type brought in for the playoffs. If Stone and Valimaki come back they are 8 deep on the blueline so potentially they would get some cheap depth but not necessarily.

My memory doesnt serve me well here, how did Ferland do during the playoffs? I remember him being lights out against Van, but how was he last time against the Ducks?