The Great Flames Goalie Debate Thread

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by David Struch

Actually, the post was made to prove the naysayers wrong, the Flames can afford a 6 million goalie and the Bennett contract is the minimum amount for Calgary to send out.

Feel free to create your own scenario, Jankowski + Kylington?

Can't even afford a 13th forward with that proposal. At minimum i think we'd have to move out 3m

[dammage79]

Scheniders been recalled to the Heat. Gillies incoming?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by SixtySix

I do not subscribe to the "a win is a win, just relax" mentality that a lot of people seem to have. I see the Flames as a top team in this league and I believe everyone on it should be held to a high standard. It's awesome that the Flames are finding ways to win games with consistently poor to average goaltending.

Fun fact: this is actually untrue.

Not only has the goaltending not been consistently poor or average, it’s actually been closer to the opposite.

Games where the SV% of the starter was:
Above .918 = 18
“Average” .917-.906 = 2
Below .905 = 12

.918+ represents the averages of the top 10 goaltenders in the league, while average represents goaltenders 11-20, and below represents 20 on.

So, the Flames have received above average goaltending more than below average. So it’s factually incorrect to say the Flames have received average to poor goaltending consistently.

The more you know!

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Scheniders been recalled to the Heat. Gillies incoming?

Has to be. Parsons just returned from an injury so he hasn't played in a while.

[Twisted Canuck]

Maybe we could get Koskinen for Stone and Neal...sell Chia on a good D man and strong winger...

[flamesforcup]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Flames are 8th in the NHL in GAA.

Would never have guessed that, and its an indication IMO, of the observation that with the equipment changes that almost all G's are looking worse than in years past.

I'm not sure anything needs to be done this season.

Obviously there will be changes over the summer but at this point, unless something falls into their laps, you wait until the draft to make that decision.

I disagree. Smith has let in at least one stinker every couple games and the games he has been "good" he has faced very very few hard shots and got to play against easier teams. He also is flopping everywhere making routine saves look like saves of the year.

This is likely going to be one of the prime years of this core. Mony and Gaudreau are in the age where forwards usually peak and Gio is 35. This is not some rebuilding team anymore we cant just say "we dont need to change anything" because the team is winning. We need to make a trade to solidify the net so we dont waste this cores prime years before Chucky needs a contract and one of the defensemen leave to UFA. With a good goalie i firmly believe this team can go deep. If we stick with Smith we might win one round or none. Imagine giving up 4-5 stinkers during the series. The playoffs are a different beast u cant just easily overcome that the game is much tighter.

Anyways with rumors of Crawford or Howard being available i have faith that management will not let the best flames team in decades go to waste over goaltending. Trade our first if u have to but please do not go into the playoffs with Smith. I dont want another quick exit.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Scheniders been recalled to the Heat. Gillies incoming?

Are we even sure that Smith will miss any time?

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by flamesforcup

I disagree. Smith has let in at least one stinker every game.

Lies. How is it possible to let in a stinker every game when you have two shutouts? Yes, he's let in more bad goals than he should but this "every game" thing is over-exaggeration.

[flamesforcup]

Originally Posted by Inferno

Lies. How is it possible to let in a stinker every game when you have two shutouts? Yes, he's let in more bad goals than he should but this "every game" thing is over-exaggeration.

Ur right my bad. I will change it to once every 2-3 games. But that is still not acceptable.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by flamesforcup

I disagree. Smith has let in at least one stinker every game and the games he has been "good" he has faced very very few hard shots and got to play against easier teams...

This is patently false.

This is likely going to be one of the prime years of this core. Mony and Gaudreau are in the age where forwards usually peak and Gio is 35. This is not some rebuilding team anymore we cant just say "we dont need to change anything" because the team is winning.

I really don't think anyone is saying this. What I think a number of posters are arguing is that the risk or cost of making an in-season trade for a goalie is simply too high. In the current market the best course of action is to play out the season and address this issue in the summer.

We need to make a trade to solidify the net so we dont waste this cores prime years before Chucky needs a contract and one of the defensemen leave to UFA...

This looks like a panicky reactionary move to me. I am highly sceptical that such a trade could happen right now that would make any perceivable difference to the Flames fortunes this season.

[stone hands]

i think a little hyperbole is fine when discussing the starting goaltender who's been sub .900 in over half the games he's played this year and has let in 4 or more 7 times in those 20 games, many of which are embarrassingly beer league in quality

[flamesforcup]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

This is patently false.


I really don't think anyone is saying this. What I think a number of posters are arguing is that the risk or cost of making an in-season trade for a goalie is simply too high. In the current market the best course of action is to play out the season and address this issue in the summer.


This looks like a panicky reactionary move to me. I am highly sceptical that such a trade could happen right now that would make any perceivable difference to the Flames fortunes this season.

I think if we make a trade early enough where the goalie has time to adjust it can be help them stay on their game. It might be a reactionary move but i just dont want to waste probably one of the 2 prime years of this core on another early first round loss because of goalies. We saw how it happened with Elliot.

[Ryan Coke]

Rittichs ‘drop offs’ have been from very good to average, with virtually no completely terrible goals other than the 3rd goal in Columbus and a couple of puck handling goals last year.

I don’t buy the narrative of him falling off every time he gets a run of games.

This year his poor games haven’t been particularly bad, just not as good as his others. Meanwhile Smith’s gaffs have been egregious and far more frequent, but he gets far more leash than Rittich.

Rittich in Columbus was a tough first, but Smith has had as bad and worse performances multiple times and been given the rest of the game to work through it. I don’t like the double standard between the 2.

I am not a Smith hater, and want him to get his game back where it can be. I am not writing him off due to age or whatever, but trying to say that Rittich drops off everytime he gets some games to try to justify the longer leash is really rationalizing on that side, as noticeably as the people who try to excuse any of Smiths good play because they just want him gone.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by flamesforcup

I think if we make a trade early enough where the goalie has time to adjust it can be help them stay on their game. It might be a reactionary move but i just dont want to waste probably one of the 2 prime years of this core on another early first round loss because of goalies. We saw how it happened with Elliot.

Another fun fact: if you break the season into 7 game segments (ie game 1-7, 2-8, 3-9, etc), there is only one situation where the Flames lost 4 out of 7 games (the stretch between Colorado and Washington, which included the Pittsburgh game).

Which suggests basically nothing, but if you wanted to say it’s more likely that we win 4/7 games than lose 4/7 in any hypothetical playoff situation, the record would currently back that up.

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Smith gets a longer leash because of his ability to stifle the forecheck by playing the puck. Management is still hoping he finds his game because the puck handling is a massive defensive advantage. Dump and chase doesn’t work against Smith and this team struggles a bit against the cycle.

Rittich is definitely an above average puck handler and he's keen to handle it. He certainly doesn't stay in his crease like some other goalies. You know Smith has a lot to do with that.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Another fun fact: if you break the season into 7 game segments (ie game 1-7, 2-8, 3-9, etc), there is only one situation where the Flames lost 4 out of 7 games (the stretch between Colorado and Washington, which included the Pittsburgh game).

Which suggests basically nothing, but if you wanted to say it’s more likely that we win 4/7 games than lose 4/7 in any hypothetical playoff situation, the record would currently back that up.

Here are the 7 game segments so far if you keep to 7 games.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Here are the 7 game segments so far if you keep to 7 games.

Yeah, it looks even better if you go in strict 7 game segments from game 1 to now. The only way you see 4 losses in 7 is if you isolate one random 7 game stretch.

We’re in really good shape even with the goaltending we have.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by flamesforcup

I think if we make a trade early enough where the goalie has time to adjust it can be help them stay on their game.

So, who would you propose that the Flames target in a trade?

It might be a reactionary move but i just dont want to waste probably one of the 2 prime years of this core on another early first round loss because of goalies. We saw how it happened with Elliot.

Which is bad. And so what if Elliott faltered in the 2017 playoffs? That has nothing to do with this year's Flames team.

[gamesaver]

Rittich has a short leash, but for him that is actually better. Smith is receiving all the hate while Rittich kind of flies under the radar. If they would throw him in and branded him our number one for the reminder of the season, this would change and all of the attention would be on him. I think the organisation have high hopes in him, but they just don't want to make the same mistake as last season, when he was put in in kind of desperate, do or die situation. Both of our goalies were able to go on a winning streak, so the "win and stay in" approach makes sense.

[SixtySix]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

So, the Flames have received above average goaltending more than below average. So it’s factually incorrect to say the Flames have received average to poor goaltending consistently.

The more you know!

No, it's not.

It would be factually incorrect to say that the Flames combined save percentage of their goalies is poor to average relative to the league. But this is not a conversation that begins and ends with statistics, especially when we're lumping 2 opposite ends of the spectrum together. Obviously there's been a pretty glaring problem in net this year, hence the thread. Rittich is posting a .921 save% which is top 10 in the NHL. He's looked great so far, and I don't think anybody has an issue with his play. Sorry for not clarifying, that's my bad, but what you quoted was from a paragraph about Smith. Smith has played the majority of games and sports an abysmal .888. That's bottom 10. I think it's pretty safe to say the Flames have bailed out bad goaltending to win more often than good goaltending has stolen games for them this year, and I don't think every team with similar combined save% to the Flames could say the same.