No one is disputing that players tail off offensively in their 30s. We all know this.
But some people talk like, at 31, he is no longer an NHL player and is a piece of garbage.
There is a LOT of room between those two things. He'll be fine.
I agree with this, I thought when we signed him he would basically have 19 goals, then 16 goals, then 14 goals then 11 goals and 8 goals in his final year. I thought we were signing a guy who could average around 14-15 goals a year for 5.75 million. That may have been optimistic. But even a 12-15 goal average each year over 5 years would make him an NHL player. Hopefully we get that out of him (60-75 goals over the 5 year deal).
The feeling is mutual, although I would like to know how Hackey thinks Girgensons could help us more than Jankowski which was his hockey opinion earlier this year. That would be an entertaining hockey discussion.
Well here is the original post I was quoting and my actual quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Struch
I remember the end of the 1st round that year.
Seeing as how they drafted Jankowski instead, I was hoping Calgary might've traded for that 30th pick and took Tanner Pearson. (even though he was two years older than Mark Jankowski)
We would've got an NHL player 4 years sooner had we selected Pearson over Jankowski.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackey
I like Jankowski and hope he can continue to progress but there are a lot of guys we passed on that could be helping out right now.
Girgensons, Ceci, Wilson, Hertl, Teravainen, Vasilevsky, Laughton, Maata, Matheson, Subban are the 10 players selected from 14-24.
At least we were able to add Patrick Sieloff.
As you can see I listed the 10 players selected after our pick. Not sure how you singled out Girgensons.
The common thread in the drop off in shooting % might be line mates. Neal and many of these players were 1st or 2nd line players at one point, then demoted to 3rd line. Losing PP time could also be an issue. Playing with Ryan isn't exactly the recipe for getting setup for scoring chances.
Exactly this.
For sure players tend to have a decrease in production going into their 30s, but it is often compounded by the fact younger players at their peak push older players down the line up and take over their place on the PP.
It shouldn't be surprising news that any player will produce much less on the bottom 6 than the top 6, and with less PP time. Neal's current production is not necessarily, or even likely (IMO), an indication of his current abilities if he got called up into the top 6.
This is depth and it's a good thing. If older players are not being pushed down the line-up by younger players, then you have a problem. Sure, the older players might benefit personally by having better opportunities to produce, but it isn't good for the team in general.
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I thought it'd be worth reviewing Neal's goals in Vegas last year to get an idea for what's ailing him.
For his career, Neal is an 11.8% shooter, and this year he's shooting 4.2%. His shot still looks strong. He's on pace to get over 200 shots this year, so one would think some sort of positive regression is due. He's not this bad a hockey player.
The skating is much-lamented, but nobody can watch that video and come away telling me Vegas Neal is any quicker than Calgary Neal.
Neal scores his goals by reading the play, disappearing in coverage, and pouncing when things break down. When I watch the Vegas highlights, I see a player who has a pretty good idea of where he's going and where his linemates are going. It's safe to say, he hasn't had the same pulse of the Calgary offense.
I hope he breaks out. Years 4 and 5 of this deal might be very tough.
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Hamonic is well worth what we paid for him. #15, 45 and 52, which turned out to be Senyshen, Forsbacka-Karlsson, and Lauzon.
Yes, I know we wouldn't have picked the same players, and people will cherry pick and say it could have been this guy and that guy, but it just as easily could have been players even worse than these.
Hamonic is a stud and a warrior, and is badly needed on this team. When we hit the playoffs, people are going to be loving him.
I'm not sure where you got those names from but the Islanders drafted Noah Dobson #12 overall with the 1st round pick they got from Calgary last year
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We’re 30 games in now and James Neal is still struggling to make an impact on this team. Neal is on pace to score 8 goals this season and for a guy whose never scored under 20 goals in a season, I think it’s safe to say every fan, every member of Flames management and James Neal himself are all pretty disappointed up to this point.
I refuse to believe that Neal has just lost his skill and scoring ability overnight. Heck, Troy Brouwer is on pace for nearly 20 goals playing on the Panthers 4th line. I can’t help think that the pro scouts of this organization haven’t accounted for the fact that the current roster doesn’t have a really high end playmaking centerman. Our best playmakers are our 2 left wingers in Gaudreau and Tkachuk.
Monahan is more of a goal scorer and Backlund is a great shutdown center who cycles well down low. I think the chemistry between James Neal and Erik Haula worked last season because Haula can skate fast with the puck and break down defenses, giving Neal the ability to jump into open spaces and allowing him time and space to unleash his lethal shot.
That’s the thing I’ve noticed on the Flames, he’s usually covered pretty well in the slot and when he does get a chance, he’s rushed into taking a weak shot before the defense closes in on him. He also seems to be having a hard time playing the give and go game which seems to clash with his style.
I don’t know if we can find him that kind of centerman or whether it’s worth it to. But unless something drastically changes or we find the right line-mate for him, I can see Neal continuing to struggle because I’m not sure it’s a confidence issue as it is more of a fit issue. Hope I’m wrong but that’s my theory on the matter.
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-I think one of the snake charts bit James Neal. Now he's snake-bitten.
-Who would have thought that Hathaway would have as many goals as Neal and Lucic combined. I guess it was obvious that Lucic wasn't going to add to that total, but still.
-Worst case scenario, there's a lockout in 2020 and then the Flames get a compliance buyout.
That would be before most of the big Flames contracts end.
We’re 30 games in now and James Neal is still struggling to make an impact on this team. Neal is on pace to score 8 goals this season and for a guy whose never scored under 20 goals in a season, I think it’s safe to say every fan, every member of Flames management and James Neal himself are all pretty disappointed up to this point.
I refuse to believe that Neal has just lost his skill and scoring ability overnight. Heck, Troy Brouwer is on pace for nearly 20 goals playing on the Panthers 4th line. I can’t help think that the pro scouts of this organization haven’t accounted for the fact that the current roster doesn’t have a really high end playmaking centerman. Our best playmakers are our 2 left wingers in Gaudreau and Tkachuk...
Yeah, Stonehands Garbageman is only the #6 scoring centre in the NHL, and ranks only #9 in assists out all Western Conference centres. What a dud.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
Yeah, Stonehands Garbageman is only the #6 scoring centre in the NHL, and ranks only #9 in assists out all Western Conference centres. What a dud.
Never said that, so not sure why you’re taking it as a Monahan criticism. I said that Gaudreau is the playmaker on the line and Monahan is more of the goal scorer of that line. They also thrive on the give and go which is not a Neal’s game. That’s why Lindholm has been such a great fit because even though he’s never hit the same goal totals as Neal, he’s the better candidate.
We’ve seen Neal on the rush and he just doesn’t look comfortable. Every game he plays with Monahan and Gaudreau right after a penalty his killed and they can’t generate anything together. Then the second Lindholm comes on it’s magic. At this point in his career, Neal needs a fast, primary puck carrying centerman who can dish to Neal in the slot. Without that, I don’t think he’ll find success here.
A lot of people are banking on him scoring and then catching fire with new found confidence, but it’s not like he caught fire after he scored against Colorado. Personally I don’t think it’s a confidence issue, it’s a fit problem at the moment.
Never said that, so not sure why you’re taking it as a Monahan criticism. I said that Gaudreau is the playmaker on the line and Monahan is more of the goal scorer of that line...
You said that the Flames do not have a high-end play-making centre. That is false. Monahan does just about everything at a high level.
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Dealing with Everything from Dead Sea Scrolls to Red C Trolls
Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
Never said that, so not sure why you’re taking it as a Monahan criticism. I said that Gaudreau is the playmaker on the line and Monahan is more of the goal scorer of that line. They also thrive on the give and go which is not a Neal’s game. That’s why Lindholm has been such a great fit because even though he’s never hit the same goal totals as Neal, he’s the better candidate.
We’ve seen Neal on the rush and he just doesn’t look comfortable. Every game he plays with Monahan and Gaudreau right after a penalty his killed and they can’t generate anything together. Then the second Lindholm comes on it’s magic. At this point in his career, Neal needs a fast, primary puck carrying centerman who can dish to Neal in the slot. Without that, I don’t think he’ll find success here.
A lot of people are banking on him scoring and then catching fire with new found confidence, but it’s not like he caught fire after he scored against Colorado. Personally I don’t think it’s a confidence issue, it’s a fit problem at the moment.
He is too slow to play "on the rush" with Gaudreau's line,
Neal is a goal scorer, not a play maker. He simply "does not see the ice" the same way that Gaudrea, Monahan, and Lidholm do. So no, I never expect a line of Gaudreu, Monahan, and Neal to click or be all that productive.
Neal has to start contributing more pretty soon or else we have another very expensive Morrison or Brouwer signing.
He might seem to be in the mix and almost "on the cusp" but I expect more from a 5 year $5 million contract.
