[Signing] Flames sign James Neal (5 years, 5.75 AAV)

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by CanadaMatt

We all laugh at the Oilers signing of Lucic. Neal is worse

Yeah no, he's not worse at all. Not even close.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by the2bears

Yeah no, he's not worse at all. Not even close.

So far as a Flame he is.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Yoho

So far as a Flame he is.

No he’s not.
Lucic 1-4-5 -11
Neal 3-3-6 -5

Neal’s certainly not lighting it up by any stretch, but he’s less crappy than Lucic.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Hamonic took an entire year to settle in and show us the player we thought we were getting.

So I'm willing to give the rest of the season for Neal to show he can be a player outside of the top line.

Moaning about it 30 games in accomplishes really little, as there isn't a trade or move of any kind coming with that price tag, and the team is playing well anyway so why nit pick when we can enjoy the ride (for once).

I put most of the less than stellar poor play of Hamonic or regressing play of other Flames players at the feet of GG. I don't blame much of it on settling in.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Yoho

So far as a Flame he is.

Really? You must have a strange definition of "worse" then.

Lucic, 1G 4A, Neal 3G 3A.

edit: And that's just this year. Lucic has 2 years of suck, Neal is ~30 games.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by the2bears

Really? You must have a strange definition of "worse" then.

Lucic, 1G 4A, Neal 3G 3A.

Lucic does allot more than score. Neal not so much.
Of the two I’d take Lucic’s 5 points and intimidating physical play over Neal looking lost and making pretty much every line mate worse right now.

[GreenLantern2814]

Treliving is a really good GM. I like most of his philosophy about how you build a team, I like most of the things he's done to this roster, and I think he's the long-term answer at GM.

That said, he needs to hire someone (it can be me, I don't cost much) on July 1 to sit in his office with him and say 'Don't do that'.

"I really think Mason Raymond can -"

"Don't do that."

"What this team needs most is the veteran leadership and Cup experience of Troy Brouw-"

"Don't do that, you already have Frolik and he's better"

"James Neal-"

"No, you already have Lindholm, you added Czarnik for a fifth of what Neal wants, and if you just put Bennett with Tkachuk and Backlund, that basically cements your 2nd line. Tkachuk needs a deal next year, and we still don't have a goalie."

"You're right. I'm glad you're here"

"No problem, buddy"

[Hemi-Cuda]

The Flames have always had a useless veteran player signed to a bad contract for as long as I've been watching them, that's just how it is. When Neal is finally traded or bought out then Treliving will just try his luck again on July 1 and we'll be right back here, it's not worth getting worked up about

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Lucic does allot more than score. Neal not so much.
Of the two I’d take Lucic’s 5 points and intimidating physical play over Neal looking lost and making pretty much every line mate worse right now.

Hahaha! What?

No. Lucic has been an awful boat anchor this year. He can't skate, and he can't score. He is always behind the play. His "intimidating physical presence" is decidedly muted by these rather glaring shortcomings.

[dammage79]

OKay. people have lost their minds if the thinking is Lucic is a prefered player over James Neal. Not even 4 months in at that. Just nope! Check please! Oh look over there! They have a slower more stupid and expensive version of what I just left at my table. Oooooo I want it.

No way in Hell would I ever want Milan Lucic near my team. Never did, never will.

4 months in people. 4. All it apparently takes is 4 months to lose your minds over a player.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Lucic does allot more than score. Neal not so much.
Of the two I’d take Lucic’s 5 points and intimidating physical play over Neal looking lost and making pretty much every line mate worse right now.

Isn't this what Lucic is doing? Any stats to back up your claim? You've got a hate going for Neal and it's affecting your judgment.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

The Flames have always had a useless veteran player signed to a bad contract for as long as I've been watching them, that's just how it is. When Neal is finally traded or bought out then Treliving will just try his luck again on July 1 and we'll be right back here, it's not worth getting worked up about

I imagine pretty much every team can claim just such a player.

[LWcrowfoot]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Lucic does allot more than score. Neal not so much.
Of the two I’d take Lucic’s 5 points and intimidating physical play over Neal looking lost and making pretty much every line mate worse right now.

This is what people who haven't seen Lucic play in a calendar year say.

[MolsonInBothHands]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Treliving is a really good GM. I like most of his philosophy about how you build a team, I like most of the things he's done to this roster, and I think he's the long-term answer at GM.

That said, he needs to hire someone (it can be me, I don't cost much) on July 1 to sit in his office with him and say 'Don't do that'.

"I really think Mason Raymond can -"

"Don't do that."

"What this team needs most is the veteran leadership and Cup experience of Troy Brouw-"

"Don't do that, you already have Frolik and he's better"

"James Neal-"

"No, you already have Lindholm, you added Czarnik for a fifth of what Neal wants, and if you just put Bennett with Tkachuk and Backlund, that basically cements your 2nd line. Tkachuk needs a deal next year, and we still don't have a goalie."

"You're right. I'm glad you're here"

"No problem, buddy"

With hindsight, it's hard to argue what you say about Raymond and Brouwer. However, most people thought Neale would be the one on the first line and few, if any predicted the Lindholm explosion.

With the team playing as well as it is right now, the team has the luxury of not relying on Neale to be a game changer. Depth is a luxury, and we have it. Enjoy it.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by MolsonInBothHands

With hindsight, it's hard to argue what you say about Raymond and Brouwer. However, most people thought Neale would be the one on the first line and few, if any predicted the Lindholm explosion.

With the team playing as well as it is right now, the team has the luxury of not relying on Neale to be a game changer. Depth is a luxury, and we have it. Enjoy it.

Yeah, I honestly didn't know Lindholm would be so effective on RW. I always just thought of him as a center and assumed Neal would be a top 6 RW. We can't break up the top line obviously, but if Neal was on that line, I am sure he would be more productive than he has been in the bottom 6. Maybe not as productive as Lindholm, but I really do think Neal's lack of scoring has to do with his ice time. He isn't an overly creative player, but he can finish when playing with top talent.

I am really glad that we have him as depth. It sucks for him that he hasn't found consistency where he is, but when wear and tear of the season shows, I am hopeful that having a low mileage Neal waiting to pick up the slack will show dividends when it counts.

[N-E-B]

I’m sorry but that’s a ridiculous comparison. Lucic makes more, is signed for FOUR MORE YEARS, and doesn’t do anything other than exist out there. Neal is at least is showing signs that production might come. His shooting percentage is unsustainably low for a player of his caliber. Lucic also plays in the top six, Neal on the third line.

If you think Neal is in the same realm as Lucic you need to start watching games and stop just looking at the stats column. Either that or your ability to assess a hockey players effectiveness is extremely poor.

I can’t wait until Neal starts scoring and all these ridiculous overreactions stop. Take a deep breath, the Flames are in 1st, there’s no need to be outraged at Neal. Absolutely none. Grow up.

[Freddy]

I voted Wait and See when he was signed and unfortunately my suspicions have been confirmed. But he is signed and as an optimist I hope his contributions to team chemistry and culture on/off the ice are helping the team to the recent success. His track record of successful teams can continue even if his ice time and role changes, and it seems Peters roster management will not make the same questionable ice time decisions Gulutzan made with Brouwer. (...then again I recently saw Brouwer being used in the dying minutes of a Panthers game and realized he must have some redeeming skills/quality that another coach has fallen for too...)
Either way, as long as the Flames are winning I’ll give a little credit to Neal’s intangibles as value on such a polarizing contract.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Neal is an issue. I am taking a wait and see approach, but he doesn't look good next to Monahan and Gaudreau. He looked ok opposite Bennett. The Frolik - Ryan - Neal line was probably the best he looked with any consistency.


I am still holding out hope - sometimes a change of scenery can have no impact, sometimes it can have a positive impact and a player erupts, or it can have a negative impact short or even long term. Neal has been streaky, so there's that. He may turn it around. Maybe if he just pots a couple of goals on consecutive games, he can start relaxing his grip on his stick a bit. That might just be the issue right now.


I just hope it isn't a poor fit. Brouwer was a fairly consistent scorer up until he got to the Flames. Now his utilization was different than what he was used to on other teams, and I also think Gulutzan's system was trash for actually creating offence. Brouwer in Florida seems to be a decent depth scorer.


Might just be in the utilization. I think Ryan and Neal is simply not a good fit. If you really want to get Neal going, maybe a Tkachuk - Bennett - Neal line may actually work?


Frolik - Backlund - Ryan as a more traditional 'shut-down' line?



If not, maybe just switch what Peters is rolling with now in Jankowski and Ryan. Jankowski seems to be a much better playmaker. Try them out as a pair with a rotating set of LW'ers.



At the very least, there are a lot of reasonable options as to what to do with Neal.



Neal may end up going down as one of Treliving's UFA mistakes to go along with Brouwer and Raymond, or it just end up working out rather nicely if Neal just starts clicking with someone and pucks start finding their way into the back of the net.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by MolsonInBothHands

With hindsight, it's hard to argue what you say about Raymond and Brouwer. However, most people thought Neale would be the one on the first line and few, if any predicted the Lindholm explosion.

With the team playing as well as it is right now, the team has the luxury of not relying on Neale to be a game changer. Depth is a luxury, and we have it. Enjoy it.

I do think Neal is different from Raymond and Brouwer - even though it's not clicking for him yet, I don't think he looks like someone who's forgotten how to play the game. I think he's a guy on his third team in three years, and he's struggling to find a fit. I also think most free agents try to earn their whole deal in October, and fizzle in their first year.

July 1 is unquestionably Treliving's biggest weakness, in my view. He cost himself $7+M between Brouwer and Neal, and had he signed replacement level AHL all stars, they would've had similar or better production.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Let’s make this simple

The streak James Neal is on that matters is consecutive Stanley Cup finals.

Raymond, Brouwer, Lucic, whoever.. not so much. James Neal - Stanley Cup Finals.

That is all.