Came across this incredibly in-depth look at New Jersey's police force. Here's the Coles notes (as per Poynter):
Reporters at NJ.com took 72,607 incident forms from 565 municipalities in the last five years.
It took 506 public records requests.
It cost about $36,500 in records requests, digitization, data entry and fact-checking.
Some of the things they found:
New Jersey had no uniform way to track use of force.
10 percent of officers contributed to 38 percent of all use of force.
Black people were three times more likely to encounter police force than white people.
Towns with the highest use of force were suburban, liberal enclaves. In Maplewood, for instance, force is used in more than one out of every 10 arrests.
I don't want to make some blanket statement about how awesome or corrupt police forces are in North America, but there's clearly something missing in how these systems operate (I'm unclear if I would put Calgary as part of these 'systems'... but there's still value in comparing). The biggest thing for me in these links is how incredibly important high-level journalism is to point out these things.
I can understand, won't necessarily validate but can understand, getting carried away in heat of the moment situations where your life is on the line. I'm a huge proponent of self-defense.
Attacking a man handcuffed and compliant though? That's not something a normal person would do under stress. Lying under oath years after the incident? Again, that has nothing to do with stress.
And why should the standards for police officers be "normal people"? The police should be held to an absolutely high standard. If you can't handle the stress to do the work, that's understandable, find a new job. Not slam the door on the legs of handcuffed and harmless (innocent) civilians.
But again, the fact that they thought a thug and goon like Kaminski would make a good representative for the face of the police union shows that they want to be portrayed as thugs and goons.
No one is stating it's okay to attack a handcuffed person. I'm saying that the job itself plays a large role into warping good police officers into those that break the rules. We can mitigate this by screening, training, and counseling, but police officers are human. Their daily interaction with the worst of society is going to result in a significant amount of them breaking the rules, and it's not necessarily because they were bad people from the get go. Police officers are sacrificing a portion of themselves to do their jobs.
There are a lot of people underestimating how difficult law enforcement jobs are in this thread. It's a job where your life is constantly in danger and you have to deal with the most difficult and dangerous people in society.
Hiring practices are not entirely to blame here. Having an extremely stressful job is likely to change a lot of otherwise level people into "ragers".
Are they really though? That's like saying I am constantly in danger when I drive on the highway because I could die in an instant. There's plenty of time when cops are just on patrol or responding to regular calls. Their whole shift isn't getting shot at by gangs and drug dealers.
And if anything, the Philando Castile showed just how much of a problem we have. The girlfriend is shown in her facebook live video as entirely calm while just witnessing her boyfriend murdered in front of her while her child was in the back seat. Yet the trained officer was the one that could not hold his composure. He was the one that over reacted. He was the one that escalated.
Here is my real issue. Say we consider an incident like the Castile shooting an accident or say the officer is a bad apple. Why then are we still seeing so many incidents that cops claim are justified but citizen journalism or body cams show as fabrications? Why is the blue wall still defending these people? Why is the threshold for convicting law enforcement so insanely high? Why do these officers with excessive force and firearm incidents get hired by other departments like nothing happened?
The continued lack of oversight and punishment allows this corruption to continue. It's sad that in 2018 we still have such problems.
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No one is stating it's okay to attack a handcuffed person.
I absolutely don't think you are. I do think that the Police Union, implicitly, did when they elected that goon to represent them despite having that document in front of them and again when they said they wanted him as their president despite the charges.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blankall
I'm saying that the job itself plays a large role into warping good police officers into those that break the rules. We can mitigate this by screening, training, and counseling, but police officers are human. Their daily interaction with the worst of society is going to result in a significant amount of them breaking the rules, and it's not necessarily because they were bad people from the get go. Police officers are sacrificing a portion of themselves to do their jobs.
Honestly, that sounds like a lot making excuses for them. Some people are qualified for jobs, others aren't. That goes for any industry and profession. I don't want a surgeon doing surgery if his or her hands aren't stable. It might not be his fault, but if he can't meet the requirements, tough luck.
If a police officer can't meet the requirements of his or her job, in this example stress from dealing with the worst of society, they shouldn't get any slack or excuses for breaking the rules. They should be relieved of duties and, assuming no criminal charges, forced to find a new job. Instead, the blue shield protects them and the public will say they are just human. Enough with the excuses, break the rules and the "good" police should want you out. They don't though, those same "good" police will protect their own 99% of the time. Or elect them president of the union.
Last edited by Oling_Roachinen; 12-04-2018 at 01:26 PM.
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There's plenty of time when cops are just on patrol or responding to regular calls. Their whole shift isn't getting shot at by gangs and drug dealers.
There's not really such a thing as a 'regular call'. Dealing with gangs and drug dealers is actually easier, because you know to expect when dealing with that. It's when you are dealing with a couple that won't stop fighting, and someone loses it and pulls a knife or gun on an officer that ratchets up the tension. When you make a traffic stop and approach a car, is the person going to be nice, or are they concealing a gun aimed at you already?
You never know what you are going to get, or how people are going to react, or what they are going to do. It's a huge contributing stress factor.
Last edited by WhiteTiger; 12-04-2018 at 01:35 PM.
There are a lot of people underestimating how difficult law enforcement jobs are in this thread. It's a job where your life is constantly in danger and you have to deal with the most difficult and dangerous people in society.
As mentioned law enforcement in Canada doesn't even crack the top 10 of most dangerous jobs.
I think they can be a bit quick on the draw. I've been taken down at gunpoint twice by the CPS, once for shooting a bb gun (they monitored me using it prior to pointing guns at me), the second time was simply their mistake.
I like the idea of the police, but having had them point guns at me and essentially physically attack me, I'm a bit apprehensive of how they approach certain situations.
Being a police officer should be a dangerous profession, kind of like being a soldier. By becoming one, you accept the inherent danger involved. I don't see that they should therefore become very aggressive and defensive in protection of their own lives, at the expense of the public/people's lives.
Ironically a lot of what officers do to make their job safer, makes it more dangerous. They get used to demanding id, stopping and frisking, violating people's rights, manufacturing stupid charges, over reacting and generally being disrespectful. One day they're going to run into the wrong guy who doesn't play that game.
It's a hard and stressful job but also one that is a great honor to perform. I'd love to have the chance to save people every day. Who wouldn't? They're also quite lucky to be cops. I also don't think it takes on going stress to cause issues in police performance. Trauma and stress can be a one time experience that causes physiological changes in your brain. The wrong guy can snap on day one.
Specifically regarding the Calgary Police Force, their willful avoidance of training and education in dealing with mental health issues is pitiful. Almost every other police force and fire department in North America takes that training but not our guys. We just take em all down cause officer safety.
In fairness to Fuzz that article he posted had near zero information in it.
I hope the old fella is ok.
Here's their release, from their FB page:
Quote:
Pedestrian collision - 2 Street 9 Avenue S.W.
The Calgary Police Service Traffic Section is investigating a pedestrian collision in the downtown area.
Shortly after 1 p.m., today, Tuesday, Dec. 4, 2018, an unmarked Calgary Police Service vehicle, a 2009 GMC Sierra, was being driven by an on duty CPS member, in the area of 2 Street and 9th Avenue S.W. The male driver was trying to reposition the vehicle and was reversing near the curb.
At the same time, a 69-year-old male pedestrian was crossing 2 Street from the east curb towards the west curb. He was crossing the road diagonally.
As the pedestrian approached the rear of the GMC, the reversing vehicle struck him.
The pedestrian sustained serious chest and pelvic injuries. The driver did not sustain any injuries.
Speed, alcohol, and drugs are not considered to be factors in the collision.
As per protocol, the Director of Law Enforcement has been notified.
Anyone who may have witnessed the collision is asked to call the Traffic Section at 403-567-4000 or Crime Stoppers through either of the following methods:
Ironically a lot of what officers do to make their job safer, makes it more dangerous. They get used to demanding id, stopping and frisking, violating people's rights, manufacturing stupid charges, over reacting and generally being disrespectful. One day they're going to run into the wrong guy who doesn't play that game.
It's a hard and stressful job but also one that is a great honor to perform. I'd love to have the chance to save people every day. Who wouldn't? They're also quite lucky to be cops. I also don't think it takes on going stress to cause issues in police performance. Trauma and stress can be a one time experience that causes physiological changes in your brain. The wrong guy can snap on day one.
Specifically regarding the Calgary Police Force, their willful avoidance of training and education in dealing with mental health issues is pitiful. Almost every other police force and fire department in North America takes that training but not our guys. We just take em all down cause officer safety.
Stop talking and apply then. Make it a better place.
All you really need to do is look at the Arkinstall incident and fallout to see how totally ####ty of an organization the CPS is and the majority of police officers in it.
More or less, Arkinstall, a member of the Hells Angels, was pulled over for an illegal uturn. The cop, Derrick, sees he's Hells Angels and takes the opportunity to arrest him without cause. He calls over his buddy Kaminski and they rough the guy up. This happened in 2008.
The cops don't submit a use-of-force report. But they charge him with a uttering threats, assault of a police officer and the like.
Arkinstall trial happens in 2011. Derrick and Kaminski give evidence, contradicted by video evidence, to the point that the judge actually says the cops aren't credible. Which should be a massive huge flag to anyone who cares about any sort of justice of any resemblance. Arkinstall is acquitted.
Arkinstall's lawyer submits a compliant to CPS. CPS review the complaint and (surprise) they find no reason for an investigation. Blue Shield is glowing.
ASIRT gets involved in 2015 with the complaints against police officers but this thing has dragged on for years. And other issues, like obtaining the video, further delay the process.
ASIRT finally recommends that charges be placed against Kaminski and Derrick years after the incident. Perjury and assault charges. By the end they are dismissed in 2018.
In 2018, the LERB does an inquiry into the mess. More or less finds that there was no effort by the CPS to do any type of real review and that, as a result, there's no way to really tell if disciplinary action should have occurred. CPS spokespeople twist the story, instead of cops get off because CPS didn't investigate and gather evidence, they say that cops were innocence because there was no evidence.
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But a couple bad apples right? Nope while all of this was going on and Kaminski still had charges against him the police union vote him in as president. That's right, a cop who a judge called not credible, who was facing perjury and assault charges, was voted in as president by a large margin.
You forgot to add the fact that ALL charges against Kaminski were dropped and that Derrick was found not guilty. I know that hurts your narrative but those are also facts of the case.
You forgot to add the fact that ALL charges against Kaminski were dropped and that Derrick was found not guilty. I know that hurts your narrative but those are also facts of the case.
Feel free to edit your post to include that.
Quote:
“Although there was evidence capable of providing reasonable grounds to believe that an offence or offences had been committed, the Crown has now come to the conclusion that the case no longer meets the standard for prosecution, as it is entitled to do,” Susan Hughson, ASIRT’s executive director, said in the statement.
There wasn't a reasonable likelihood of conviction I guess.
Paging MBates.........
Right. Different thresholds. One to lay and charge, one to find guilty.
Fact remains, charges were withdrawn. Should bring some question into the "facts" presented by the Oling and he should be just as upfront about those facts in his original post.
Last edited by Bent Wookie; 12-05-2018 at 12:03 PM.
Right. Different thresholds. One to lay and charge, one to find guilty.
Fact remains, charges were withdrawn. Should bring some question into the "facts" presented by the Oling and he should be just as upfront about those facts in his original post.
Well, thats just saying that after a decade of filibustering the Police dont feel that the Police did anything wrong so....the Police have decided to close the case against the Police. All is well. Nothing to see here.
Not exactly a ringing endorsement.
Bill Clinton is adamant that he never had sexual relations with 'that woman' but nobody believes him either.
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Well, thats just saying that after a decade of filibustering the Police dont feel that the Police did anything wrong so....the Police have decided to close the case against the Police. All is well. Nothing to see here.
Not exactly a ringing endorsement.
Bill Clinton is adamant that he never had sexual relations with 'that woman' but nobody believes him either.
I think you've misunderstood Locke.
The police actually laid the charges against the police. The crown withdrew them (and the other was found not guilty).
