Daniel Carcillo and Sarnia teammates share OHL hazing experiences

[BBQorMILDEW]

Originally Posted by wingmaker

No, my point is not moot. I think you missed my point entirely. That is fantastic that for you, personally, you have not had to live through the type of culture described in this thread.

My argument is that the environments described in this thread continue to exist. Period. That individuals who have not experienced it themselves should be wary of thinking everything is "better now".

For a guy who’s trying to save the world, please stop generalizing myself and my plight. You don’t know me or what I’ve been through in my life. If you’re not gay yourself, you’re just virtue signalling to prop yourself up. Newsflash, not every gay person has been persecuted and not every gay person needs an athlete to come out of the closet in order to make what they do more validated.

As you can already tell by watching every sitcom or movie, gays are so prevalent it’s crazy. And if there isn’t a gay couple in every show, then the lack of tolerance from the lGBT community comes out.

Does seeing two guys kissing on Tv make me feel more accepted in my life? Would a hockey player coming out do the same?

Your point is stupid. Athletes should only worry about playing sports and not about who they’re sleeping with. To try and fight that is asinine.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Worst argument in the English language.

Seriously.... you open your post by dismissing someone else’s opinion by assuming you know everything about their life, and because you are oh so wise their opinion is worthless. You are better because you were less... privileged? Were you? You don’t know. But does it even matter?

What a terrible post.

Second worst at most. Worst is "SJW".

[sempuki]

Originally Posted by BBQorMILDEW

For a guy who’s trying to save the world, please stop generalizing myself and my plight. You don’t know me or what I’ve been through in my life. If you’re not gay yourself, you’re just virtue signalling to prop yourself up. Newsflash, not every gay person has been persecuted and not every gay person needs an athlete to come out of the closet in order to make what they do more validated.

As you can already tell by watching every sitcom or movie, gays are so prevalent it’s crazy. And if there isn’t a gay couple in every show, then the lack of tolerance from the lGBT community comes out.

Does seeing two guys kissing on Tv make me feel more accepted in my life? Would a hockey player coming out do the same?

Your point is stupid. Athletes should only worry about playing sports and not about who they’re sleeping with. To try and fight that is asinine.

Just because you don't need validation doesn't mean no one else does. You don't speak for every gay person, we have statistics for that.

And if "check your privilege" automatically invalidates anything a person says, "virtue signaling" does too. What sort of broken human being makes caring about others a bad thing? Probably the kind of person who himself wouldn't do anything kind unless someone was watching. Most of what people assume true about others is just what they know is true about themselves.

If I think being gay is about sex, I suggest you have a lot of work to do with your therapist, because being straight sure as hell isn't about sex.

[flamesfan1297]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Second worst at most. Worst is "SJW".

What's SJW stand for?

[FlamesAddiction]

I don't know if it's fair to discuss this as a gay issue. I get that male-on-male sexual assault can lead to that tangent, but I think it is more about power and humiliation. Turning it into a gay issue is harmful to gay people and how some people view that orientation IMO. This is about assault and bullying period.

[JohnnyB]

I wouldn't put that much beyond some of the initiation activities on the university sports team I played for. I'm not going to name where or when, but there was stuff in a similar realm, some stuff that I would say was worse than that mentioned in the article.

I didn't get the worst of it, cause I knew how to play the game, but looking back on it if there were guys who were really feeling helpless and were really unwilling participants at the time I would say it was pretty bad. I never felt like I was really being abused, because I always knew that if I really didn't accept I could just leave, but I guess other guys going through it may not have had the same sense of self determination during the events and could have taken it much harder than I did.

[wingmaker]

Originally Posted by BBQorMILDEW

For a guy who’s trying to save the world, please stop generalizing myself and my plight. You don’t know me or what I’ve been through in my life. If you’re not gay yourself, you’re just virtue signalling to prop yourself up. Newsflash, not every gay person has been persecuted and not every gay person needs an athlete to come out of the closet in order to make what they do more validated.

As you can already tell by watching every sitcom or movie, gays are so prevalent it’s crazy. And if there isn’t a gay couple in every show, then the lack of tolerance from the lGBT community comes out.

Does seeing two guys kissing on Tv make me feel more accepted in my life? Would a hockey player coming out do the same?

Your point is stupid. Athletes should only worry about playing sports and not about who they’re sleeping with. To try and fight that is asinine.

None of these things are what I was talking about at all. You have brought all of this to the table on your own.

The only reason I brought up sexuality at all, was as an indicator that professional sports are not a safe place. I wasn't talking about athletes being advocates for anyone. I was referring to the vulnerability of being inside the types of toxic environments discussed in this thread. I was then leading that being homosexual within these environments would increase that vulnerability, and the closeted nature of professional sports speaks volumes about how comfortable its members feel about being different than the cookie cutter jock norm. If anyone would like to dispute this or disagree with this point, the one I was actually making, by all means do.

I agree with the poster above that as an issue this has nothing to do with sexuality, and I am sorry that I brought that into this thread. They really are separate issues and I was careless in the ways that I conflated the two in my first post. As a result, a thread that is actually about very important and sensitive issues has turned into a cluster-. So my apologies to all.

All that said, the reactions to my posts have been completely insane. Safety and growing up in environments in which we as individuals are accepted and supported are absolutely privileges, what ever our personal story, sexual orientation, or whatever. "Check your privilege" is a call for self awareness, an understanding that our own experiences can bias us to not heading the experiences of others, or being obtuse to more complex situations than we have personally experienced. For someone to call that "disgusting" or the worst thing on the internet is beyond me.

[wingmaker]

As fate would have it, this happened to appear in the Times today, which discusses teenage athletes coming out and improving the situation for others which is a feather in the cap for anyone who wants to believe that the world is getting better, counter to what I wrote. Yay for hope!

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/01/u...hlete-isu.html

[dustygoon]

Perry's comment that he didn't know doesn't matter. He should've known.

Time for a public hanging.

Let coaches and managers know they are responsible for these KIDS. Not adults. KIDS for eff sake. They need to go beyond coaching.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by flamesfan1297

What's SJW stand for?

"Social Justice Warrior". It's basically a catch-all dismissal of the concerns of anyone who makes an argument supporting or based in liberal social concerns. It's a cop out made in order to avoid substance and implies that the person expressing concerns is just out there to make themselves feel good.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

"Social Justice Warrior". It's basically a catch-all dismissal of the concerns of anyone who makes an argument supporting or based in liberal social concerns. It's a cop out made in order to avoid substance and implies that the person expressing concerns is just out there to make themselves feel good.

It used to have meaning, just like right wing nutjob, but then all the right wing nutjobs started calling everybody they disagreed with SJWs, and the SJWs called everyone right wing nutjobs, and now neither term has any outward meaning, they both just identify the caller of whichever term, an actual version of the other term.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by neo45

Basketball?! Lol guys have pulled guns on each other at practice in the NBA

Is this true?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by neo45

Basketball?! Lol guys have pulled guns on each other at practice in the NBA

Originally Posted by activeStick

Is this true?

Arenas and Crittendon of the Wizards apparently pulled guns. But that's a whole different thing as hazing. I can't even see why one comes into comparison with the other.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by flamesfan1297

What's SJW stand for?

San Jose Wharks.

They’re the Whale Sharks!

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

"Social Justice Warrior". It's basically a catch-all dismissal of the concerns of anyone who makes an argument supporting or based in liberal social concerns. It's a cop out made in order to avoid substance and implies that the person expressing concerns is just out there to make themselves feel good.

You're dead wrong, and by God you ought to know better or else not advertise your ignorance.

In my line of work, ‘Social Justice Warrior’ refers to the sort of person who forms Internet mobs to try to destroy someone's career. It happens with great regularity, and many lives have been ruined because of it.

[Beninho]

Oof this thread took a turn...

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

You're dead wrong, and by God you ought to know better or else not advertise your ignorance.

In my line of work, ‘Social Justice Warrior’ refers to the sort of person who forms Internet mobs to try to destroy someone's career. It happens with great regularity, and many lives have been ruined because of it.

I have no idea what your line of work is but you are the one who I said dead wrong:

https://fee.org/articles/how-the-ter...ame-an-insult/

The ad hominem usage gained popularity in Gamergate.

[sempuki]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

You're dead wrong, and by God you ought to know better or else not advertise your ignorance.

In my line of work, ‘Social Justice Warrior’ refers to the sort of person who forms Internet mobs to try to destroy someone's career. It happens with great regularity, and many lives have been ruined because of it.

Looking for people who say "SJW" is how you play "spot the internet crazy".

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by sempuki

Looking for people who say "SJW" is how you play "spot the internet crazy".

If you're a hard Leftist who thinks anyone to the right of Lenin is insane, maybe.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

If you're a hard Leftist who thinks anyone to the right of Lenin is insane, maybe.

You are really making your point well.