HNIC: Nylander officially on the trade block

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

If the player is within a few hundred K and wants to sit, he is flat out stupid. He has 15-20 years of earning potential, of which some are entry level.

Pride doesn’t help, if only hurts.

Maybe a shame. Whatever. Can’t blame the team.

I’m going to piss away, say, 6 million because we are, say, 300 K apart? Moronic.

Why should the player capitulate? Seems as though you have an unfair bias towards the team and not the player. It’s business, both sides are playing hardball.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

If the player is within a few hundred K and wants to sit, he is flat out stupid. He has 15-20 years of earning potential, of which some are entry level.

Pride doesn’t help, if only hurts.

Maybe a shame. Whatever. Can’t blame the team.

I’m going to piss away, say, 6 million because we are, say, 300 K apart? Moronic.

The Leafs would piss away a shot at a Stanley Cup because they are, say, $300k apart?

Why isn’t that equally foolish?

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

The Leafs would piss away a shot at a Stanley Cup because they are, say, $300k apart?

Why isn’t that equally foolish?

So you're saying that the Leafs are the favourites to win the Cup with Nylander on the roster, and have no chance whatever without him? Hmmmm. Maybe the foolish party in the conversation isn't who you think it is.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Yeah. If you are the player, it is simple. Pissing away 6 million to save 300 000. How many years does it take to make that up?

Oversimplified, but... Say you are hanging around doing nothing and really would like 20 bucks. I am the only guy allowed to offer you money, and I offer you 19. Do you take the 19 or tell me to pound sand?

You have a 20 year potential career and think it is worthwhile to pass up 20 bucks one year because you think you can make a dollar more per year.

The team (especially Toronto) will make money. Odds are already that they don’t win the cup. Smart management generally bases decisions on probabilities over technical possibilities.

A year off for the player due to pride over a small percentage of earnings is idiotic.

[PlayfulGenius]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Yeah. If you are the player, it is simple. Pissing away 6 million to save 300 000. How many years does it take to make that up?

Oversimplified, but... Say you are hanging around doing nothing and really would like 20 bucks. I am the only guy allowed to offer you money, and I offer you 19. Do you take the 19 or tell me to pound sand?

You have a 20 year potential career and think it is worthwhile to pass up 20 bucks one year because you think you can make a dollar more per year.

The team (especially Toronto) will make money. Odds are already that they don’t win the cup. Smart management generally bases decisions on probabilities over technical possibilities.

A year off for the player due to pride over a small percentage of earnings is idiotic.

This is WAY too oversimplified, as the player and agent can make up that gap by getting a signing bonus, or deferring much of the contract to later years... it’s not nearly the risk you’ve pointed out here.

As far as the delay in signing... almost all of that can be made up quite easily. Missing an entire year is another story, as I think it’d be hard to make that all back.

When is the actual deadline... noon eastern??

[ForeverFlameFan]

12/01/18 5pm eastern time

[Hey Connor, It's Mess]

Maybe when I wake up something will have happened.

Maybe.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by PlayfulGenius

This is WAY too oversimplified, as the player and agent can make up that gap by getting a signing bonus, or deferring much of the contract to later years... it’s not nearly the risk you’ve pointed out here.

As far as the delay in signing... almost all of that can be made up quite easily. Missing an entire year is another story, as I think it’d be hard to make that all back.

When is the actual deadline... noon eastern??

Yeah I oversimplified it.

But what you mentioned was my point. If the player is stubborn enough to forego a year, he is unlikely to make it back. And therefore pretty much a dumbass. That’s all.

So his trump card is a dud.

[Monahammer]

1st+Jankowski+Rasmus andersson

What else could we add to sweeten the pot

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

1st+Jankowski+Rasmus andersson

What else could we add to sweeten the pot

Calgary is a cap team with 18.175 M of cap invested in Ryan(3.125M), Neal(5.75M), Stone(3.5M), Frolik(4.3M), and Brouwer (1.5M). The only upcoming UFA we have this off-season is Mike Smith (4.25M) and we will still need to find a replacement for him.

Trading away two young and effective cost-controlled assets and a 1st make no sense as few, if any, of those veteran cap hits are moveable without losing even more assets. Nylander (7+M) and Tkachuk's(8+M) cap hits will be difficult to absorb and if Bennett continues his pace since being moved to the top six (0.714 PPG) he can finish the season with around 50 points - another player we need cap space for (4+M).

Unless you have a way of clearing a huge chunk of our dead cap, it's just not a viable trade.

[Phagoof]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

1st+Jankowski+Rasmus andersson

What else could we add to sweeten the pot

Dube, Valimaki, Czarnik, Frolik for Nylander

Stone on LTIR

Kylington becomes a regular on the bottom with Andersson.

That makes the salaries work. Would also need to pick up a Vet 7th defender though for the playoff run.

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm
Neal-Jankowski-Nylander
Tkachuk-Backlund-Bennett
Lomberg-Ryan-Hathaway

Giordano-Brodie
Hanifin-Hamonic
Kylington-Andersson

[sureLoss]

Flames would have to send significant salary out to even fit Nylander in this season, nevermind the salary cap situation down the line.

Because of the RFA signing after the start of the season rules in the CBA, even if you assume Nylander's new contract is for around $7 mil AAV, the cap hit for this season will actually be around $9.5 mil.

[goflamesgo18]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

1st+Jankowski+Rasmus andersson

What else could we add to sweeten the pot

No. Change out janko with frolik then maybe.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Calgary is a cap team with 18.175 M of cap invested in Ryan, Neal, Stone, Frolik, and Brouwer.

Trading away two young cost-controlled assets and a 1st make no sense as few, if any, of those cap hits are moveable without losing even more assets. Nylander (7+M) and Tkachuk's(8+M) cap hits will be difficult to absorb and if Bennett continues his pace since being moved to the top six (0.714 PPG) he can finish the season with around 49 points - another player we need cap space for (4+M).

I disagree, Ryan and frolik are both moveable assets. Stone could likely be moved with minimal add.

Dube can be brought back in next year as a cost controlled asset.

Assuming 7 mil is enough for chucky and nylander

Gaudreau (6.75)-Monahan(6.38)-Lindholm(4.85) 17.98
Tkachuk(7)-Nylander(7)-Bennett(4) 18
Neal(5.75)-Backlund(5.35)-czarnik(1.25) 12.35
Mangiapane(705k)-dube (780k)-Hathaway (825k) 2.3

Gio(6.75)-brodie(4.65) 11.4
Hanifin(4.95)-hamonic(3.86) 8.81
Valimaki(894k)-kylington(731k) 1.625

Rittich (~3mil)
Backup/1B (~2.5mil) 7

Buyout brouwer 1.5 mil

Cap increases 4 million to 83.5
Flames cap hit as proposed= ~79 mil

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Oh don't worry. They still got Marner's and Matthews' next contracts to speculate over.

Its already started... Fanboy Michael Landsberg has been unbearable for months (maybe years) with his premature Leafs/Raptors infatuation...

[getbak]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Is TSN going to have a special event tomorrow... 6 AM start with the countdown going and all of the insiders in the house...phone interviews asking random players their thoughts.. Sounds like something they would do and it might even get attention from Leafs fans.

Yup (TSN Radio in Toronto at least)...

https://twitter.com/user/status/1068867315243003904

[Azure]

Originally Posted by VilleN

Why should the player capitulate? Seems as though you have an unfair bias towards the team and not the player. It’s business, both sides are playing hardball.

The team has 20 other guys to consider in terms of cap space, upcoming expansion draft, etc.

The whole fact that Nylander started this whole stupidity by asking for $8.5m / year just goes to show how completely out to lunch he is.

And now to go down to the wire over what basically amounts to chump change just reeks of sheer incompetence on his agents side, and his decision making ability.

Everyone likes to say oh its just business, and players have the right to do this forget that many great players have taken discounts to play on good teams, play with certain teammates, or play on certain teams. Just because the salary cap era has driven up player contracts it doesn't mean every single guy coming out an entry level deal needs to max out their second contract because they have put up decent #s.

If anything Toronto has shown they can play their game without Nylander, and I would not be surprised if he gets traded before the draft like Friedman said.

Whenever I read a comment over how the player has the right to do this, I look at the contracts of Monahan, Gaudreau and Lindholm and I smile because 2 out of 3 of those guys have proven to be better than Nylander, and the 3rd one is well on his way.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Yeah. If you are the player, it is simple. Pissing away 6 million to save 300 000. How many years does it take to make that up?

Oversimplified, but... Say you are hanging around doing nothing and really would like 20 bucks. I am the only guy allowed to offer you money, and I offer you 19. Do you take the 19 or tell me to pound sand?

You have a 20 year potential career and think it is worthwhile to pass up 20 bucks one year because you think you can make a dollar more per year.

The team (especially Toronto) will make money. Odds are already that they don’t win the cup. Smart management generally bases decisions on probabilities over technical possibilities.

A year off for the player due to pride over a small percentage of earnings is idiotic.

For the team it is simple. You have 17.8 million in cap space available. Yearly net profits for the team are estimated around 76 million dollars. The team is holding out because they do not want to pay one half of one percent of their yearly profits (even less since they will not have to pay the full 300K.

And what do they get for not paying the 300K? As mentioned above they get the 300K. In a world where they do not sign Nylander to any contract, they probably save around 6 million dollars. This is real money now, that is equal to 7.8 percent of profits. Perhaps the money making strategy for the Leafs is to not pay anyone.

Downside to this strategy is whatever revenue they miss out on from a playoff run that is longer with Nylander than it is without him. But I am not surprised by the scheer incompetence of the Leafs, a normal team would pay the money and try to win a Cup, but not the Leafs. Idiots.

But to me it is odd to be driving such a hard bargain over 300K when your corporation makes 76 million a year. But I guess this type of logic is why the Leafs have been so successful over the years.

[sureLoss]

McKenzie says Nylander will sign or not sign. Very slim chance he will get traded today.

Bob McKenzie @TSNBobMcKenzie
Not to over simplify things but it’s pretty elementary: TOR will make its final, best offer to William Nylander today. He’ll either accept it or not. It’s highly highly highly unlikely, tho technically still possible, he’ll be traded. Sign or sit for the year seems to sum it up.

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by getbak

Yup (TSN Radio in Toronto at least)...

https://twitter.com/user/status/1068867315243003904

If there seems to be a drop in the excitement level, I’m sure they can fill the time with updates on Auston’s or Mitch’s personal hygiene activities.