GM Layoffs

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I don't think there's any realistic scenario where Canada goes to war and the US doesn't defend them. There's no way the US would let Canada be invaded when we share such a big border. The more realistic scenario is the US conquering Canada TBH.

Spoiler!

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I can appreciate all the reasons for GM shutting down the Oshawa plant, however a part of me wants to see us produce and consume a reasonable portion of our own autos.

Should we not try and keep our manufacturing base...if only for security reasons in case of war?

Not that I am a nationalist...however, I think I am starting to see that there may be a limit as to how far we should go in having all our goods produced or resources developed somewhere else...particularly by nations which do not have the same standards we set for ourselves.

Maybe there's a balance somewhere.

Doing a startup to build a Canadian Car is a money pit. Beyond the time to develop a design, test it, market it and build it, its going to cost probably billions of dollars. Plus you don't think that Ford and GM and the other manufacturers would crush it, on top of that how competitive would that car be competing against cars stamped out in other countries.

It would be another Bombardier on a massive scale, for 2600 jobs.

Who would fund it, The Feds? Ontario is pretty much broke.

Look the price tag to put out a new car ranges between 1 and 6 billion before you would even see dollar one back. Plus if we're just a small Canadian Auto maker, and lets say that they don't read the market right and put out a Homer that doesn't sell, are we going to bail them out?

No thanks, its equivalent to the argument of building a Canadian Fighter Jet and letting a incompetent company like Bombardier make it. Unless you have billions in cash for the development phase, forget it.

Its not worth it for the number of jobs that could be saved.

Also what happens the first time in this Canadian Car company that they do a restructuring or find a efficiency that allows them to lay off people?

The only way I would think this is a good idea is if the Union decides to buy the plant and do it and take responsibility for it.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Well they could do the radical I guess. Hold a press conference with the head of the union and Trudeau


Union Head - "We can't keep GM here, they're bound and determined to shut down. But we have an exciting announcement. We've reached an agreement with the Federal Government, I turn the floor over to the Right Honorable Justin Trudeau our Prime Minister and savior"


Trudeau - "We've, uh, reached an agreement to, uh, take over the Oshawa plant effective, uh, in December of next, uh, year. The Federal, uh, Government has, uh, committed $500 million dollars to, uh, re purpose the plant to build a made in Canada, uh, car that will be called the, uh, Justin. Effective immediately we will, uh, hold a social media contest asking for, uh, ideas about what this, uh, car should have, then it will be designed by a top notch Federal Government, uh, task force and go into production next year.


Union Head - "On top of that not only are we going to save these 2400 jobs, but add another 3000 jobs and everyone will get a raise"


A four more years chant starts


Trudeau - Now, uh, this isn't about the next election, this is about, uh, good middle class jobs and the next election"

I was trying to read your post in Trudeau's voice and had to make some changes so it sounded right...

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I don't think there's any realistic scenario where Canada goes to war and the US doesn't defend them. There's no way the US would let Canada be invaded when we share such a big border. The more realistic scenario is the US conquering Canada TBH.

right. which is why having a car manufacturing plan in oshawa is meaningless for national security.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Weitz

If I'm GM I would have just announced the plant is closing in 2 weeks.. If that means waiting till next december so be it.

Now you are going to get the Union take "labour action" and likely get the plant closed sooner.

Or its all a ruse to get big time government handouts that I assume will be announced in short order.

The union telling them to walk off the job yesterday was utterly stupid. A labour lawyer pretty much said if GM wanted to be dicks they could fire all with cause. Giving them all one year I think is pretty generous knowing the current environment. People in the oil patch probably would have loved that sort of heads up.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Robbob

The union telling them to walk off the job yesterday was utterly stupid. A labour lawyer pretty much said if GM wanted to be dicks they could fire all with cause.

They could all be terminated with cause, GM is unlikely to do that in this case though given that they would need to hire and train 3000 new employees for a facility that will be closing in a years time and the union knows that the risk of it happening is minimal.

I don’t know why exactly they decided to give their employees that direction, but given the fact that emotions were no doubt running high immediately after the announcement, if they were concerned that there was risk of a potential incident at the plant I can understand why they would try to avoid it by giving there members some time to cool off rather than do something that would definitely lead to them being fired.

[OMG!WTF!]

The union fighting for GM jobs is the same union that has been and still is against pipeline construction...


https://www.unifor.org/en/ian.boyko%40unifor.org

“Keystone XL, Northern Gateway, and the new Kinder Morgan pipeline all have one thing in common: they steal Canada’s natural resource wealth and leave us with nothing to show for it.”

That's Jerry Dias for you. Mr. They're not closing down our gas guzzler plant without a fight. Can't really bring myself to give a hoot about your stupid union now. Boot strap time kids.

[Fuzz]

1 million sq feet? Sounds like a good space for a grow op. I imagine lots of high power wiring exists. Re-purpose some of those robots for harvesting...

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

1 million sq feet? Sounds like a good space for a grow op. I imagine lots of high power wiring exists. Re-purpose some of those robots for harvesting...

General Mmmmm...cookies

[DiracSpike]

“Keystone XL, Northern Gateway, and the new Kinder Morgan pipeline all have one thing in common: they steal Canada’s natural resource wealth and leave us with nothing to show for it.”

No...without those pipelines now we're selling off our natural resources with nothing to show for it. Tool. God Canada sucks, regional interests just take hold and nothing gets done, that's what happens when you cobble together a country from the leftovers of two Colonial powers with no national identity. Good thing the Canadian dairy council keeps making me watch commercials telling me how important it is to buy their overpriced cheese just because it's Canadian. Why the f should that matter, no one else in the country cares at all about supporting each other so why should I.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

The union fighting for GM jobs is the same union that has been and still is against pipeline construction...


https://www.unifor.org/en/ian.boyko%40unifor.org





That's Jerry Dias for you. Mr. They're not closing down our gas guzzler plant without a fight. Can't really bring myself to give a hoot about your stupid union now. Boot strap time kids.

Don't worry, none of the union execs will be losing their jobs.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Again, Canada shoots itself in the foot. They are a resource rich country. So what do they do? They make it as hard as possible for companies to come in and extract that resource. In the meantime, they prop up dying companies that are either manufacturing outdated products (GM), or just suck as a company (Bombardier).

Under proper leadership and vision Canada could literally be a top 5 wealthiest nation in the world.

#VoteSnuffleupagusforPM

[Northendzone]

this is likely true, but we would not have any movement toward gender equality and where would the anti-everything champion kate mckenna be?

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Under proper leadership and vision Canada could literally be a top 5 wealthiest nation in the world.

#VoteSnuffleupagusforPM

[OMG!WTF!]

To paraphrase Morneau...What happened in Oshawa yesterday is very real and what's happened in Alberta is just as real.



I think that's the fundamental misunderstanding here. It's not the same at all. Alberta has lost 2500 jobs every month for three years. That's way worse. But in Morneau's mind it's the same thing.

[stampsx2]

I can see what the conservatives meant now when they said “he’s just not ready”

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

I can see what the conservatives meant now when they said “he’s just not ready”

They can probably change it in the upcoming election to; "He's never going to be ready. Let's stop the bleeding.".

[DiracSpike]

I read an article from oilprice.com today talking about the countries that would be most exposed to a fall in crude prices. The list was Malaysia, Venezuela, Russia, and us. In fact they singled us and Malaysia out as two countries whose root problems lay with bad government policy. Malaysia. How ####ing depressing is that. We're in the same league with a country that has apparently been taken over by a nonagenarian strongman who already had a disastrous regime in the 1980s. That's where we're at right now what a ####ing joke.

[redforever]

Well dear Andy is not helping the cause. Apparently there was discussion to see if there was anything that could be done regarding the GM situation and dear Andy said he was open to perhaps some kind of bailout.

Here was his time and opportunity to say no and champion Alberta's plight.

Total lack of leadership, not that he had any leadership skills in the first place.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by redforever

Well dear Andy is not helping the cause. Apparently there was discussion to see if there was anything that could be done regarding the GM situation and dear Andy said he was open to perhaps some kind of bailout.

Here was his time and opportunity to say no and champion Alberta's plight.

Total lack of leadership, not that he had any leadership skills in the first place.

There's a yes and no here. He was asked specifically about GM and he answered that question.


The answer of looking at a buy out is silly, I doubt that there's any buy out possibilities

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

I read an article from oilprice.com today talking about the countries that would be most exposed to a fall in crude prices. The list was Malaysia, Venezuela, Russia, and us. In fact they singled us and Malaysia out as two countries whose root problems lay with bad government policy. Malaysia. How ####ing depressing is that. We're in the same league with a country that has apparently been taken over by a nonagenarian strongman who already had a disastrous regime in the 1980s. That's where we're at right now what a ####ing joke.

We are an international laughing stock. No other country in the world would so easily just give away it's most valuable natural resource. And to the USA no less.

And yet, there's a strong chance this loser will still win the next election. It's insanity.