Practice notes Nov 22. Stone on IR (blood clot). Frolik won't travel with team

[Strange Brew]

Depth in the NHL is very fleeting and this shows why you don’t trade guys just because they’re not playing much when the team is totally healthy.

Really hope this works out for Stone and he gets through it.

[Otto-matic]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Was just looking at Blood Clots in arms.


The treatment is mostly therapy, he has to wear a compression sleeve, elevate the arm as much as possible and take blood thinners. The usual treatment period is 3 to 6 months. If it doesn't go away or its large, there are other options up to surgical removal.


It can basically kill you if there's a break away.

My Aunt is currently on blood thinners due to her mechanical heart valve. It was probably a doctors worst nightmare when she got admitted for a brain bleed/stroke a couple months ago. They had to reverse the thinners, seal the leak and place her back on thinners.

The problem is thinners caused the brain hemorrhage and increases the risk of them by an insane amount from what I've read.

Her diet is severely restricted too, anything that contains high amount of Vitamin K is a no/no. So pretty much any leafy green veg, soy products, canola oil ect.

[TheSutterDynasty]

Originally Posted by Hey Connor, It's Mess

Why are so many athletes getting blood clots these days? Better detection/diagnosis or something else?

Diagnosis has never really been a huge issue as they have pretty cardinal signs and symptoms, are generally easily detectable with doppler ultrasound, and don't just go away on their own.

As mentioned, a controversial reason may be blood doping or hormone use. Taking EPO to increase your production of red blood cells to increase your aerobic capacity will increase your risk, ie you'll have "thicker blood" to put it simply. Though that's easily detectable so maybe not the best example. Other hormone therapy can increase risk (an easy example is birth control).

A less controversial answer could be plane travel due to pressure changes and being sedentary during.

But there's no doubt that high level athletes are over represented when it comes to blood clots.

[PugnaciousIntern]

Guys. Arm DVTs are not the way that a PED ’hypercoagulability’ would present. It’s generally a result of external vein compression by structures in the neck, namely the first rib.

Arm DVT not related to malignancy or central catheters/pacemakers is mostly due to ‘Venous Thoracic Outlet Syndrome”, also known as ‘Paget Schroetter’ (?sp). Bulking up shoulder muscles is a common cause, especially smaller ones such as the anterior scalene. Pitchers are the classic population who get these weird muscular hypertrophied.

A poster asked why first rib removal is generall performed in athletes (+/- dissolving the clot before longer term blood thinners). It is the location of vein compression, and happens to be where the anterior scalene attaches.

And because nobody has really heard of this outside niche medical specialties, including many doctors, it is under diagnosed.

[djsFlames]

Chillington time?

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Was just looking at Blood Clots in arms.


The treatment is mostly therapy, he has to wear a compression sleeve, elevate the arm as much as possible and take blood thinners. The usual treatment period is 3 to 6 months. If it doesn't go away or its large, there are other options up to surgical removal.


It can basically kill you if there's a break away.

He’ll likely get an IVC filter which is a “trap” which catches any blood clots before it gets to the heart and can therefore travel to the brain or lung vessels.

Originally Posted by transplant99

Yeah the big worry with clots (depending where they are on the body) are that they actually break away and travel into the heart or brain, and cause anything from a stroke to an aneurysm.



Thinners for sure and that could be a long process...as in months.

Stroke yes, aneurysm no. You can get a clot from an aneurysm but not the other way around.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Otto-matic

My Aunt is currently on blood thinners due to her mechanical heart valve. It was probably a doctors worst nightmare when she got admitted for a brain bleed/stroke a couple months ago. They had to reverse the thinners, seal the leak and place her back on thinners.

The problem is thinners caused the brain hemorrhage and increases the risk of them by an insane amount from what I've read.

Her diet is severely restricted too, anything that contains high amount of Vitamin K is a no/no. So pretty much any leafy green veg, soy products, canola oil ect.

That is mainly a requirement for Warfarin. There are new blood thinners on the market that don't require any special diet at all.

[Gaskal]

Blood clots are a serious issue and I'm worried for Stone's long term health, much less his career. We have already seen Pascal Dupuis suffer through the ordeal.

[dammage79]

Gonna go ahead and toss Kerby Rychels name into the hat for a call up. Leads the heat in goals I think, good size, can hit, can drop em if someone wants to take liberities.

In fact, with eatbread out for what seems like a while, why not swap Czarnik and Rychel for a stretch?

EDIT: Actually tied for the team lead in points with 14. tied with Gylington and Graovac? Hey look, Curtis Lazar isn't far behind with 13 points. Still would rather Rychel at this point.

[scotty2hotty]

I had completely forgotten about Rychel already

[FusionX]

That sucks to hear about Stone, though I'd have to say I sort of forgot he was our 7th defenseman for a while there.

In terms of blood clots, they can be serious and are taken seriously by physicians but it's not quite to the extent where people's lives are in danger necessarily all the time. The thing that makes it rough for pro atheletes is the fact that being on blood thinners makes contact sports a no go essentially while they're on it. Perhaps more importantly would be to figure out why people develop blood clots as there can be certain implications behind it but in Stone's case, as mentioned above, it could be due to compression as arm DVTs aren't nearly as common as leg ones.

As for risks of having a blood clot, anything in the venous system (as all DVTs are, regardless of arms/legs), the concern isn't anything to do with the heart (well, not the left side anyways) or the brain actually but the lungs. All blood coming back to the heart passes first through the right heart and then the lungs before hitting the arterial system. As a result, the biggest concern is a pulmonary embolism or PE where it blocks off blood flow in the lungs which can be fatal in some circumstances. DVTs generally don't make it to the brain where indeed it could cause strokes unless there's a defect in the heart allowing it to bypass the lungs.

Lastly, there are cases where an IVC filter could be put in to prevent clots from traveling to the lungs but that only works for leg DVTs as they're drained into the IVC where the filter goes. Stone's is in the arm so an IVC filter wouldn't work unfortunately. Also, filters really aren't used unless there's nothing else and only for as long as needed since they're a poor modality of prevention and cause lots of complications themselves.

Anyways, I hope he's doing ok and they figure out why he developed it. At best he'd be on thinners for 3 months but it'll all depend on why he got it in the first place.

[bubbsy]

Damn, hockey stuff aside, hope Stone makes a quick and full recovery from this

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by PugnaciousIntern

Guys. Arm DVTs are not the way that a PED ’hypercoagulability’ would present. It’s generally a result of external vein compression by structures in the neck, namely the first rib.

Arm DVT not related to malignancy or central catheters/pacemakers is mostly due to ‘Venous Thoracic Outlet Syndrome”, also known as ‘Paget Schroetter’ (?sp). Bulking up shoulder muscles is a common cause, especially smaller ones such as the anterior scalene. Pitchers are the classic population who get these weird muscular hypertrophied.

A poster asked why first rib removal is generall performed in athletes (+/- dissolving the clot before longer term blood thinners). It is the location of vein compression, and happens to be where the anterior scalene attaches.

And because nobody has really heard of this outside niche medical specialties, including many doctors, it is under diagnosed.

[gamesaver]

I think I remember Tomas Fleischmann had a blood clot which resulted in pulmanory embolism. Happened after he was traded from Washington to Colorado and the higher altitude in Denver exposed his health issues. I am not familiar with the treatment he had to undergo, but good news for Stone are that Fleishmann was able to continue his career when traded to Florida and played some of his best hockey there. I hope Stone´s story will be similar, get well soon Michael.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Stone's shoulders are too big from all the lifting.