Sam Bennett Value: Have the Flames held on TOO long? OR is he awesome?

[Azure]

One could take the time to go dig up the threads on Backlund when guys wanted to get rid of him and said he didn't have more offensive potential.

Maybe the posters are even the same ones that have written off Bennett.

If they are, can we ban them?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Hey you disagree with my opinion, so you obviously don't watch the games!

Why are you the way you are bud?

Yeah, you appear to have missed that point too.

There is a lot of information available for people to use when forming an opinion. I like to use more info than the stat line, particularly that which gives a broader view of the situation, to inform my opinion.

Such as in this case items including linemates, ice time, deployment, etc.

That’s partly why I am the way I am, chum.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Azure

One could take the time to go dig up the threads on Backlund when guys wanted to get rid of him and said he didn't have more offensive potential.

Maybe the posters are even the same ones that have written off Bennett.

If they are, can we ban them?

There are nights when Backlund looks lazy and I was pretty hard on him two weeks ago. He does have another gear, just needs to shift...

[H2SO4(aq)]

Once more into the fray
Into the last good fight I'll ever know
Live or die on this day
Live or die on this day

- Me, preparing myself to open the Sam Bennett thread.

[The Boy Wonder]

Quite funny that the two games he's got on the second line aren't enough to sway some people into believing that he deserves a chance in the top 6.

Please tell me what any other forward other than the top 4 on the team has done to deserve a top 6 winger's amount of ice time over bennett. He is generating chances at a great clip, yes he has a weak shot and probably needs to spend some time working on that, but he is getting the puck to guys on his line and is making things happen.

Would rather see him given a substantial opportunity to run with this instead of trying to get Neal and frolik going in that spot.

The thing people are overlooking is that bennett is playing extremely defensively responsible hockey. he was out there last night against marchessault and for the first two periods held him to very very few good scoring opportunities. That is what everyone wants the winger on that Backlund tkachuk line to do is it not?

just quit complaining and enjoy the rise out of the GG ashes.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

Quite funny that the two games he's got on the second line aren't enough to sway some people into believing that he deserves a chance in the top 6.

just quit complaining and enjoy the rise out of the GG ashes.

This.

Two games in on the second line, with increased ice time, and Bennett's stat line is:

Averaging 16mins, 1G, 1A, +1, 7 PIM (primarily from fighting a neanderthal), 2 power play points, 5 shots, 6 hits.

He's played against the McDavid line and the Marchessault line in those two games, and done very well in both.

So yea, I'd say he's more than earned his keep. If Peters keeps him on that second line, I'm going to predict we see late November to mid December 2017 Bennett make an appearance. 14GP, 13 points.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Yikes ... splitting atoms now.

Don't think this is changing my point at all. With depth/cap issues the average 6th best forward is no longer a 60 point player. He's a bolt on. Bennett has gone from the fourth line to Calgary's bolt on which is quite a move in one quarter of a season.

He was on an 18 point pace two games ago. Now he's on a 25 point pace. It wouldn't surprise me to see him best 30 this year and carve out a role.

We haven't heard the last of line alterations though, and Frolik and Neal will be heard from again.

But at this point to see this season as anything other than a bounce back for Bennett in terms of his play and role on the team would be holding to an opinion of a player and not letting it go (my opinion only of course)

I would be quite happy for Bennett/Frolik/Neal to battle it out for that 6th forward spot for the rest of the season. Internal competition is good!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

This.

Two games in on the second line, with increased ice time, and Bennett's stat line is:

Averaging 16mins, 1G, 1A, +1, 7 PIM (primarily from fighting a neanderthal), 2 power play points, 5 shots, 6 hits.

He's played against the McDavid line and the Marchessault line in those two games, and done very well in both.

So yea, I'd say he's more than earned his keep. If Peters keeps him on that second line, I'm going to predict we see late November to mid December 2017 Bennett make an appearance. 14GP, 13 points.

He's played pretty well. But his goal and assist both came on the second unit PP, not the second line. His ice time went down a fair bit from the Edmonton game which, considering he was the box for 7 minutes against Edmonton is odd (though I suppose the second line as a whole had it's time reduced in favour of the bottom six).

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

This.

Two games in on the second line, with increased ice time, and Bennett's stat line is:

Averaging 16mins, 1G, 1A, +1, 7 PIM (primarily from fighting a neanderthal), 2 power play points, 5 shots, 6 hits.

He's played against the McDavid line and the Marchessault line in those two games, and done very well in both.

So yea, I'd say he's more than earned his keep. If Peters keeps him on that second line, I'm going to predict we see late November to mid December 2017 Bennett make an appearance. 14GP, 13 points.

In other words (in a small sample size), he's been a PPG player while on the 2nd line and playing against opponents' top lines.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

He's played pretty well. But his goal and assist both came on the second unit PP, not the second line. His ice time went down a fair bit from the Edmonton game which, considering he was the box for 7 minutes against Edmonton is odd (though I suppose the second line as a whole had it's time reduced in favour of the bottom six).

True, but the 2nd PP unit is actually offensively inferior to the 2nd line, with Tkachuk playing on PP1.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

True, but the 2nd PP unit is actually offensively inferior to the 2nd line, with Tkachuk playing on PP1.

Except that they are always playing against 4 guys. And his goal was the ultimate fluke.

Don't mistake me - I think he has looked much better this year and has not looked worse than Frolik on the second line. But let's not chalk his production up to being on that line, that's all.

I guess the question is whether he is going to be Frolik at best or someone more like Lindholm.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Edmonton had 2 top 6 defencemen.

Fixed for accuracy.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Yikes ... splitting atoms now.

Don't think this is changing my point at all. With depth/cap issues the average 6th best forward is no longer a 60 point player. He's a bolt on. Bennett has gone from the fourth line to Calgary's bolt on which is quite a move in one quarter of a season.

I don't think you need to get 60 points to be an above-average complementary player (your words), but I do think you should be expected to get over 40 points to be one. I think if you're going to call him something, we should establish what exactly it is without that being called "splitting atoms."


Also, I feel like you think splitting atoms means we're not talking about a big difference, but splitting atoms actually makes a big ####ing difference.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

He's played pretty well. But his goal and assist both came on the second unit PP, not the second line. His ice time went down a fair bit from the Edmonton game which, considering he was the box for 7 minutes against Edmonton is odd (though I suppose the second line as a whole had it's time reduced in favour of the bottom six).

there was a lot of special teams work early in that game last night and when the PP1 scores then coach doesn't go back to the 2nd line often, as one or more of those players will have just been on the ice and tired. same thing with PK1 and backlund being on there.

I think it was circumstantial if anything and likely won't see that continue if the flames are in a less penalized game (for both teams) also game script really seemed like peters was trying to get Neal and Frolik going with a lot of ice in the third

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

there was a lot of special teams work early in that game last night and when the PP1 scores then coach doesn't go back to the 2nd line often, as one or more of those players will have just been on the ice and tired. same thing with PK1 and backlund being on there.

I think it was circumstantial if anything and likely won't see that continue if the flames are in a less penalized game (for both teams) also game script really seemed like peters was trying to get Neal and Frolik going with a lot of ice in the third

Oh sure, the reduced ice time (down to 15 which is still pretty high for him) was solely as a result of playing the bottom 6 more, not because of problems with the top 6. I think I said that.

I just don't want to overread the stats from the last two games. I thought Bennett played the same as he has all season, which is pretty good.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I don't think you need to get 60 points to be an above-average complementary player (your words), but I do think you should be expected to get over 40 points to be one. I think if you're going to call him something, we should establish what exactly it is without that being called "splitting atoms."


Also, I feel like you think splitting atoms means we're not talking about a big difference, but splitting atoms actually makes a big ####ing difference.

We seem to be talking about 5 points.

If you don't want to call that splitting atoms I'm fine with that.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Except that they are always playing against 4 guys. And his goal was the ultimate fluke.

Don't mistake me - I think he has looked much better this year and has not looked worse than Frolik on the second line. But let's not chalk his production up to being on that line, that's all.

I guess the question is whether he is going to be Frolik at best or someone more like Lindholm.

Remind me again how good the 2nd PP unit has looked this year without Bennett, regardless of having the man advantage.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Bingo

We seem to be talking about 5 points.

Well, I'd say we are talking about 15 points. If an above-average complementary winger is 40 points, and Bennett is on pace for ~25 points after 2 seasons of 25 points. That's a 60% difference.

But I guess you're right. I'm arguing he's a 7th or 8th forward on a team. You're likely arguing he's a 6th or 7th. Not a huge difference, but no matter what that's a hugely disappointing outcome for the Calgary Flames highest drafted player ever.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Well, I'd say we are talking about 15 points. If an above-average complementary winger is 40 points, and Bennett is on pace for ~25 points after 2 seasons of 25 points. That's a 60% difference.

But I guess you're right. I'm arguing he's a 7th or 8th forward on a team. You're likely arguing he's a 6th or 7th. Not a huge difference, but no matter what that's a hugely disappointing outcome for the Calgary Flames highest drafted player ever.

give it up. Can't cry over sunk cost.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Well, I'd say we are talking about 15 points. If an above-average complementary winger is 40 points, and Bennett is on pace for ~25 points after 2 seasons of 25 points. That's a 60% difference.

But I guess you're right. I'm arguing he's a 7th or 8th forward on a team. You're likely arguing he's a 6th or 7th. Not a huge difference, but no matter what that's a hugely disappointing outcome for the Calgary Flames highest drafted player ever.

Patience, my friend, he's just 22. The end of his story is not yet written, and in fact it's starting to look like it's just begun.