Mike Smith's... woes? He blows? Eating crows? Who knows! (Also David Rittich exists!)

[Toonage]

I've said this in what feels like every thread, but the only trade I see that the Flames can make where they don't give up assets and have any sort of leverage is with the Blues. Smith for Jake Allen. Problem child for problem child. Blues get out from the next 3 years at $4M+and the Flames try to resurrect a 28 year old starter who isn't at the end of the line while giving Rittich the majority of the starts.

[Flamenspiel]

^^I don't know, I can't put up with another band aid. I think they should let the chips fall where they may, maybe try out all the goalies and refresh the system if need be. If the season goes south they need to recoup that second pick and maybe pick up some more.

[Travis Munroe]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

So moving on from personal attacks....the hell is going on here.

I like Smith's outgoing/veteran/confident presence. It's good for a young team.

But you can see his reaction time is slow. He compensates with flailing, waving, extreme movements on almost every shot. None of that calm "i've saved a million of these" about him anymore.

He really is done. It's not a confidence thing....the guy has plenty of that. He just got old.

I agree about being able to see it. Even when people talk about how well he finished the last 2 periods of last game, I didn't see it. He doesn't make saves look easy. Price had 5-6 saves last night which I had to laugh as he barely moves almost to mock the shooter at how bad of an attempt it was. Smith would be doing a belly flop blocker punch on the same shot.

That said, I also can't remember a top 50% NHL starting goalie fall off a cliff this quick. I think he needs to sit and play 1 of the next 5-6 games.

I also can't help but question what so many have....How have we had a rotating door of NHL #1 goalies come here to fall on their face? How has everyone been accountable for poor performance except for our goalie coach?

[FlamesFanTrev]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Again, that article says the 2017 trade deadline. Tkachuk was drafted in 2016.

Okay fair enough, my bad. What was the trade for in 2017 then? A year before it would have been Chucky. So what was Pittsburg looking for that they would have either had to protect from the expansion draft, or would have had to be expansion draft un-eligible? And it would have had to be worth more then the best player that Vegas could have then claimed. Guess what, Tkachuck is still on that list. Anderson and valimaki are unproven and undrafted so likely off that list. Maybe not, a pick and a prospect. Anyways, just because he was already drafted dosent stop him from being Pittsburg's ask. Pretty sure it wasn't a Frolik type, and it definitely wasn't Brouwer or a struggling Bennett.

[Split98]

I am hoping that BT has been on the phones like a madman. I don't know what he really can do at this point that doesn't come at a large cost - but the season is on the line. As difficult as it is for anyone here to justify the trades that are available, BT better have a few avenues to choose from as this was very much a widly-predicted scenario. This should not be reactionary, with how clear a potential problem this was. I might even be dipping a toe in the 'maybe BT isn't so great...' pond this year, as his off-season decisions are really glaring at the moment. Without some great play from a handful so far this season, the Flames could very well be sitting along with Smith at the bottom of the league.

Rittich has been great, and I hope that Saturday is the start of a very different year. However, I felt the same way when Smith went down with an injury. Rittich was thrown into then, but he has been very gently eased in this time around. But his handling this year does make me a little nervous. I wonder if internally they really have more confidence in Smith returning to form than they have Rittich carrying much more than they're already giving him (let alone the Starters role, which I think most are a little apprehension about). Let's hope they're wrong, but it will be a head-scratcher if Rittich takes the reigns and runs.

But with the nonsense going on with every goalie the Flames have access to outside of Rittich, they're left rolling dice. 1/4 of the way through the season I think the points Smith has cost them already have put this entire season on Rittich being able to carry the load. If he fails, a replacement needs to be coming in quick or this season is grim.

[Bourque's Twin]

I am the minority here, but I wouldn't give up completely on Smith.

Start Rittich for the next 10 games and take some pressure off Smith so he can find his own game. I believe it's more mental than anything. Last year, and at times this year, Smith looked good. There are no viable trade or UFA options at this point in time.

[Toonage]

We also need to be honest here. A goalie will be needed this off season and its going to come through free agency or a trade. Spend now or spend then. Like I said earlier, the list of goalies you can trade for and not give anything up is likely 1. To get the next legit starter, its likely going to cost the Flames. Just a matter of when.

[8sPOT]

Still cant get over the fact that Smith has cost us at least 6 points this season....so far. That puts us 4 points up on the Sharks and in 1st place.

Theres no doubt in my mind that whatever happens now, those 6 points are going to really be sorely missed around the end of March.

He has no business playing right now. Sit his ass on the bench. If we are this frustrated imagine how frustrated the rest of the team must be. Cannot keep giving him time to 'find his game', its already cost us a ton. Yes 6 points is massive in this league. Brutal.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

I am the minority here, but I wouldn't give up completely on Smith.

Start Rittich for the next 10 games and take some pressure off Smith so he can find his own game. I believe it's more mental than anything. Last year, and at times this year, Smith looked good. There are no viable trade or UFA options at this point in time.

How slow he is and how often he is flopping around on his chest are where I've lost confidence entirely.

Now, those issues could also be mental. I sure know I'm not quick and shifty when I'm out of whack, but mixed with his injury and age I wonder if his physical abilities aren't there. Eventually, the mental part will pile in too - which is where I think we're at.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Toonage

We also need to be honest here. A goalie will be needed this off season and its going to come through free agency or a trade. Spend now or spend then. Like I said earlier, the list of goalies you can trade for and not give anything up is likely 1. To get the next legit starter, its likely going to cost the Flames. Just a matter of when.

Not sure how we afford that. Tkatchuk is going to be making 6-7M next year and even though Smith comes off the books the majority of his Cap hit is being absorbed by Phoenix.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by 8sPOT

Still cant get over the fact that Smith has cost us at least 6 points this season....so far. That puts us 4 points up on the Sharks and in 1st place.

Theres no doubt in my mind that whatever happens now, those 6 points are going to really be sorely missed around the end of March.

He has no business playing right now. Sit his ass on the bench. If we are this frustrated imagine how frustrated the rest of the team must be. Cannot keep giving him time to 'find his game', its already cost us a ton. Yes 6 points is massive in this league. Brutal.

Don't forget his stellar .800 performance in that 7-4 win against Vancouver, or that remarkable job he did in the 6-5 win over Colorado. His 5-7-1 start to the season is even flattering.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Split98

How slow he is and how often he is flopping around on his chest are where I've lost confidence entirely.

Now, those issues could also be mental. I sure know I'm not quick and shifty when I'm out of whack, but mixed with his injury and age I wonder if his physical abilities aren't there. Eventually, the mental part will pile in too - which is where I think we're at.

I think it’s a combination of age and equipment changes. Goalies can’t just square up to the shooter and let puck hit them anymore. More holes now with smaller equipment.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by Toonage

We also need to be honest here. A goalie will be needed this off season and its going to come through free agency or a trade. Spend now or spend then. Like I said earlier, the list of goalies you can trade for and not give anything up is likely 1. To get the next legit starter, its likely going to cost the Flames. Just a matter of when.

I honestly think that getting through this season was the goal, and BT has a guy. It's the only thing that makes sense to me (from the I like BT+Peters camp anyway) .

[Johnny Makarov]

I blame Eddie Lack! It's like Peters is doing a total 180 for calling him out in Carolina and now he is too passive towards Smith. There was NO WAY Lack was playing worse than Smith when he called him out.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

Not sure how we afford that. Tkatchuk is going to be making 6-7M next year and even though Smith comes off the books the majority of his Cap hit is being absorbed by Phoenix.

I know. Its going to be difficult. There's going to be a cap crunch of sorts so its not like they can go out and get Bobrovsky. This team can't pay a goalie $8M or more. Varlamov would be under that. They might need to look at someone else's backup who will be under that amount. The real cost will be in the assets they give up to secure that guy in the first place.

Treliving had tried waiting waiting for guys to hit free agency and he's tried getting to guys prior to. Both have failed - but not his fault entirely. He must know at this point that he has to be as proactive as he's ever been in getting this right. He'll need to grab that player right from a team or pay through the nose if he does wait for free agency. Either way he'll have to pay. Dearly.

[-TC-]

this is an over-reaction.

he already knows where he's at. sit him down and let him know he's not seeing game ice for 5 games. tell him to go and work hard in practice and then re-assess.

[bax]

There is no sense in trading him or waiving him or whatever. Play Big Save Dave for the bulk of the games over the next month or so and hope Smith can get over this mental block with some practice and bench time.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

I think it’s a combination of age and equipment changes. Goalies can’t just square up to the shooter and let puck hit them anymore. More holes now with smaller equipment.

I think so too. Stuffing the net with a body and some filling are leaving the NHL with the enforcer

And here I thought Bishop would be the first to go down...

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

I blame Eddie Lack! It's like Peters is doing a total 180 for calling him out in Carolina and now he is too passive towards Smith. There was NO WAY Lack was playing worse than Smith when he called him out.

And Peters admitted what a mistake that was.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...past-mistakes/

You won’t get the Eddie Lack sound bite so play that today and move on,” said Peters Monday of the 51-second clip in which he talks about how Lack had to earn the respect of his teammates for being ranked 60th in save percentage in a 30-team league.

“I learned from that. Not a proud moment as a coach. It was a little over the top. I apologized to Eddie that day. I apologized to (Carolina GM) Ronnie (Francis) when it happened, so let’s get that one out of the way.

“First call after I leave here is get ahold of Smitty (Mike Smith), (David) Rittich, (Tyler) Parsons and (Jon) Gillies and make sure they know they’re not going to get that one. You’ve got to build relationships with these guys and get on the same page and accomplish things together as a team.”

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

I am the minority here, but I wouldn't give up completely on Smith.

Start Rittich for the next 10 games and take some pressure off Smith so he can find his own game. I believe it's more mental than anything. Last year, and at times this year, Smith looked good. There are no viable trade or UFA options at this point in time.

That's the starting point. Demands to trade him today are unrealistic. Playing him out of his troubles hasn't worked, though I'd argue that the last 58 minutes SJ gave Peters some thought that it was happening, resulting in the Montreal game.