HNIC: Nylander officially on the trade block

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Disagree. If the Leafs put a deal in place with Calgary, as a precondition Calgary and Nylander have to a contract in writing. Then Nylander has two choices: Sign or pass. And if Nylander passes, he's taking a huge gamble that (a) The leafs will come back and sign him for themselves - extremely unlikely or (b) Toronto will then find another trade partner for him.

In fact, if Dubas was smart - and all indications are that he is - he would wait until the eleventh hour and say "here's the only trade we can make, but you have to agree to terms. Alternatively, this is our final offer. Pick your poison."

If multiple teams are negotiating with Nylander beforehand, which people suggested is the case, then he's going to act like a UFA vis-a-vis all those teams. So he will drive up his price against whoever is trying to sign him.

Your scenario only works if Calgary makes a trade conditional on signing and doesn't have a deal with Nylander yet. But even if they do that, how does that pressure Nylander any more than his current situation?

[David Struch]

Besides being from Calgary, and Gaudreau's agent, are there any other connections between the Nylander's and the Flames, other Swedes in the organization?

Hakan Loob
Mikael Backlund
Elias Lindholm
Filip Sveningsson
Linus Lindström
Rasmus Andersson
Oliver Kylington
Marcus Högström

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

If multiple teams are negotiating with Nylander beforehand, which people suggested is the case, then he's going to act like a UFA vis-a-vis all those teams. So he will drive up his price against whoever is trying to sign him.

Yes, all teams can negotiate with Nylander but unless any team is willing to put out an offer sheet...Toronto chooses Nylander's suitor for him. And that limits his ability to negotiate.

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Your scenario only works if Calgary makes a trade conditional on signing and doesn't have a deal with Nylander yet. But even if they do that, how does that pressure Nylander any more than his current situation?

This is fair - it might pressure him more. It might not. I think the time crunch and multiple options adds pressure to make a deal. Right now, its

1) Sign with leafs
2) Don't play in 2018-19 if you think they are trying to shaft you too hard

If there is a third team, then the options become:

1) Sign with leafs
2) Sign with third party of TML's choosing
3) Don't play in 2018-19

If the third party is a contender - or an up and coming team and has a legit need for Nylander - its hard for Nylander to use the "Why should I take a discount if i'm just going to be traded" line. It also means he's rejecting offers from two teams, which makes him look really bad from an optics perspective, which reduces even further his ability to sign (negative points for showing traits of obstinance and not being a team player). Because if TML is offering him $6.5m and the other team is offering him $6.75m and Nylander wants $8m...guess who looks out to lunch?

[David Struch]

Bennett & Hamonic + picks for Nylander:

2018-19:

Gaudreau 6,75 Monahan 6,375 Lindholm 4,85
Tkachuk ,925 Backlund 5,35 Nylander 7,5
Frolík 4,3 Dubé ,778 Neal 5,75
Jankowski 1,675 Ryan 3,125 Czarnik 1,25
Hathaway ,850

Giordano 6,75 Brodie 4,65
Hanifin 4,95 Andersson ,755
Välimäki ,894 Stone 3,5
Prout ,800

Smith 4,25
Rittich ,800

Salary Cap $79,500,000
Cap Hit $79,232,899
Buyouts $2,404,167
Bonuses $1,540,000
Cap Space $267,101

2019-20:

Jettison Frolík & Stone to make way for Tkachuk & Goalie.

Gaudreau 6,75 Monahan 6,375 Lindholm 4,85
Tkachuk 7,5 Backlund 5,35 Nylander 7,5
Mangiapane ,715 Dubé ,778 Neal 5,75
Jankowski 1,675 Ryan 3,125 Czarnik 1,25

Giordano 6,75 Brodie 4,65
Hanifin 4,95 Andersson ,755
Välimäki ,894 Kylington ,730

Goalie
Rittich 1,0

Salary Cap $82,000,000
Cap Hit $75,975,875
Buyouts $1,500,000
Bonuses $665,000
Cap Space $6,024,125

[Beninho]

Nylander would be awesome but I just don’t see the flames as realistic/willing trade partners.

[Toonage]

I hope people put as much effort into their jobs and everyday lives as they do trying to shoehorn William Nylander onto the Flames roster.

[Vinny01]

Don’t want Nylander on the Flames based on his contract demands. I am not sure Treliving is rushing back to the negotiating table with Gross either. Hopefully he stays out East

[Oil Stain]

I think Calgary would be better off using their cap space on a goalie than a winger.

[edn88]

I'd take Nylander in exchange for Neal. Never going to happen, but that is the only deal that makes sense. Nylander is asking for too much and he will ultimately be overpaid where ever he goes.

[David Struch]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

I think Calgary would be better off using their cap space on a goalie than a winger.

As I've demonstrated, I think Calgary would be better off using their cap space on a goalie AND another game breaker, someone who would become part of the long term core.

That nearly 8 million in cap space that's currently being spent on Michael Frolík & Michael Stone would be better utilized on a difference maker like William Nylander or Jeff Skinner or Taylor Hall...

[The Boy Wonder]

I also don't get all the nylander love...

He's soft, will almost certainly disappear in the playoffs and we would ahve to trade at least one of our young Dmen to even start the conversation to trade for him.

There is no way Dubas is even answering Tre's calls unless it starts with Valimaki or Andersson and thats just the reality.

[TheKurgan]

Originally Posted by edn88

I'd take Nylander in exchange for Neal. Never going to happen, but that is the only deal that makes sense. Nylander is asking for too much and he will ultimately be overpaid where ever he goes.

I agree, the only way Calgary could afford to sign a player like Nylander is if we unload some bigger/long term contracts. Neal + Stone, something that is same dollars in as it is dollars out. And even then I am not sure it is worth it.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by David Struch

As I've demonstrated, I think Calgary would be better off using their cap space on a goalie AND another game breaker, someone who would become part of the long term core.

That nearly 8 million in cap space that's currently being spent on Michael Frolík & Michael Stone would be better utilized on a difference maker like William Nylander or Jeff Skinner or Taylor Hall...

That 8 million in space is earmarked for Tkachuk next year I imagine.

I think they will have to clear out either Frolik or Stone next year just to fit under the cap after paying Tkachuk and signing two goalies.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TheKurgan

I agree, the only way Calgary could afford to sign a player like Nylander is if we unload some bigger/long term contracts. Neal + Stone, something that is same dollars in as it is dollars out. And even then I am not sure it is worth it.

Toronto is trading him because they can't afford him long term, so any deal that dumps salary from the Flames has to involve a third team who can take cap space. But why would that team do it and not just take Nylander?

[David Struch]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

That 8 million in space is earmarked for Tkachuk next year I imagine.

I think they will have to clear out either Frolik or Stone next year just to fit under the cap after paying Tkachuk and signing two goalies.

Post #284 Flames Leafs Trade Proposal:

Bennett & Hamonic + picks for Nylander:

2018-19:

Gaudreau 6,75 Monahan 6,375 Lindholm 4,85
Tkachuk ,925 Backlund 5,35 Nylander 7,5
Frolík 4,3 Dubé ,778 Neal 5,75
Jankowski 1,675 Ryan 3,125 Czarnik 1,25
Hathaway ,850

Giordano 6,75 Brodie 4,65
Hanifin 4,95 Andersson ,755
Välimäki ,894 Stone 3,5
Prout ,800

Smith 4,25
Rittich ,800

Salary Cap $79,500,000
Cap Hit $79,232,899
Buyouts $2,404,167
Bonuses $1,540,000
Cap Space $267,101

2019-20:

Jettison Frolík & Stone to make way for Tkachuk & Goalie.

Gaudreau 6,75 Monahan 6,375 Lindholm 4,85
Tkachuk 7,5 Backlund 5,35 Nylander 7,5
Mangiapane ,715 Dubé ,778 Neal 5,75
Jankowski 1,675 Ryan 3,125 Czarnik 1,25

Giordano 6,75 Brodie 4,65
Hanifin 4,95 Andersson ,755
Välimäki ,894 Kylington ,730

Goalie
Rittich 1,0

Salary Cap $82,000,000
Cap Hit $75,975,875
Buyouts $1,500,000
Bonuses $665,000
Cap Space $6,024,125

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by TheKurgan

I agree, the only way Calgary could afford to sign a player like Nylander is if we unload some bigger/long term contracts. Neal + Stone, something that is same dollars in as it is dollars out. And even then I am not sure it is worth it.

Come on, this is silly.Neal and Stone are not getting you Nylander and if it did you pull the trigger on that so fast it isn't funny!

[GioforPM]

Bennett & Hamonic + picks for Nylander:

2018-19:

Gaudreau 6,75 Monahan 6,375 Lindholm 4,85
Tkachuk ,925 Backlund 5,35 Nylander 7,5
Frolík 4,3 Dubé ,778 Neal 5,75
Jankowski 1,675 Ryan 3,125 Czarnik 1,25
Hathaway ,850

Giordano 6,75 Brodie 4,65
Hanifin 4,95 Andersson ,755
Välimäki ,894 Stone 3,5
Prout ,800

Smith 4,25
Rittich ,800

Salary Cap $79,500,000
Cap Hit $79,232,899
Buyouts $2,404,167
Bonuses $1,540,000
Cap Space $267,101

So Calgary loses their best defensive defenceman (give or take Gio) who is on a terrific contract, has no one in reserve for emergencies except calling up Kylington) and has really nothing left in cap space for the trade deadline or if a goalie (the real need) comes available.

Then the next year you want a goalie for $6M, I guess. Who?

[Bleeding Red]

David Struch
2019-20:

Jettison Frolík & Stone (assuming another team is willing to trade just draft pick for them - BR) to make way for Tkachuk & Goalie.

Gaudreau 6,75 Monahan 6,375 Lindholm 4,85
Tkachuk 7,5 Backlund 5,35 Nylander 7,5
Mangiapane ,715 Dubé ,778 Neal 5,75
Jankowski 1,675 Ryan 3,125 Czarnik 1,25

Giordano 6,75 Brodie 4,65
Hanifin 4,95 Andersson ,755
Välimäki ,894 Kylington ,730

Goalie
Rittich 1,0

Salary Cap $82,000,000
Cap Hit $75,975,875
Buyouts $1,500,000
Bonuses $665,000
Cap Space $6,024,125

Not that is changes much, but you need to add:
- 13th forward (Rychel @ $1m?)
- 7th D-man (Prout @ $800?)
- Goalie @ $6 m (your numbers assume a new goalie at $4.25)
- I maintain that Nylander wants $8 m.


Still plenty of cap space.

[FlamesPuck12]

Instead of trading for him, wouldn’t it make more sense to sign him to an offer sheet?

Salary up to 8.1M is only 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks, which is cheaper than Leafs asking price and I don’t think Leafs can afford to match at 8.1M.

Why bother paying much more when you still have to negotiate a contract with Nylander.

[theslymonkey]

Originally Posted by FlamesPuck12

Instead of trading for him, wouldn’t it make more sense to sign him to an offer sheet?

Salary up to 8.1M is only 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks, which is cheaper than Leafs asking price and I don’t think Leafs can afford to match at 8.1M.

Why bother paying much more when you still have to negotiate a contract with Nylander.

For starters, Calgary doesn't have their 2019 2nd.