Yeah, I love Calgary and I really don't want to see it careen down the tunnel of Detroit and the like. I just don't think that spending a ton of money on the Olympics is the right way to boost the economy. Maybe it worked in '88 but that was ages ago, and we're in a different world. I just don't know what the solution to the downturn is, what industries the city can hope to attract -- but I think we need to invest in more long-term reform.
It all seems very sad at the moment, for certain. Idk what to think
The implicit expectation seems to be to wait until oil hits $100 again and the oil companies come back in droves. I just don't see that happening either. The City, nor CED, nor ANDP, nor the "No" side seem to have any answers.
I'd also use the Pittsburgh example before Detroit; at least Pittsburgh is moving on from its former commodity economy, but it took a long time. I believe the former Mayor even lent advisory services to the City of Calgary or Chamber of Commerce not too long ago.
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Question for debate: what was more inspiring, Calgary Next or Calgary 2026?
I think a realist would admit both were below average attempts.
Sure, neither. But even if they all blew expectations out of the water, I still think the fact that it was costing taxpayers more then$100 increase in property taxes per year over a few years would have had a lot of people not in favour, with some as vocally against it as they were here. It was easy to shoot down because of bad presenting and shifting numbers, but public and city officials alike would balk at most any reasonable price tag.
That said, why present to the public in the first place?
One wonders if the 1988 proposal would've gone through a public process like this, would've passed back in the day if the social media climate is as it is now? I am sure all the details that the people demand of finances and feel empowered and entitled to know and be part of the process (or complain to their councilor who gets worried about thier public support and bite the next election) or else now, we're not likely any more available (or assumptions made).
And, if the Flames pushed the arena issue like they had planned back in 2006, and got much more friendly governments on boards (friendly thanks mainly to a lot less social media presence to deal with the public perceptio, and ability to interject themselves into the process) he Flames could be coming up to 8 or 9 years in the new building and Edmonton wouldnt have their Garth Banner.
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Don't be. Polls showed the youth favoured the Olympics while the city as a whole were against them.
CP always represents a younger vote.
This isn’t reflected in the Mainstreet numbers. It showed 35-50 as the only cohort who was in favour of the games. Basically the Nostalgia vote, people who were kids when the games were held and now have kids who would go.
18-35 was the most heavily against. Their headline number without the undecided was 55-45 so seemingly representative.
The implicit expectation seems to be to wait until oil hits $100 again and the oil companies come back in droves. I just don't see that happening either. The City, nor CED, nor ANDP, nor the "No" side seem to have any answers.
I'd also use the Pittsburgh example before Detroit; at least Pittsburgh is moving on from its former commodity economy, but it took a long time. I believe the former Mayor even lent advisory services to the City of Calgary or Chamber of Commerce not too long ago.
The oil price people hear means nothing as long as WCS WTI gap is huge because pipeline projects get delayed or killed and there is no access to market for the oil.
The implicit expectation seems to be to wait until oil hits $100 again and the oil companies come back in droves. I just don't see that happening either. The City, nor CED, nor ANDP, nor the "No" side seem to have any answers.
I'd also use the Pittsburgh example before Detroit; at least Pittsburgh is moving on from its former commodity economy, but it took a long time. I believe the former Mayor even lent advisory services to the City of Calgary or Chamber of Commerce not too long ago.
But what does this have to do with the Olympics?
They weren't helping any of those problems, no matter how much you want to pretend like they were.
My plan if Calgary won the bid was to move back. Been needing a kick in the pants to give up the cushy current job and live where I want to live. I figured the Olympics might light up the real estate market a bit and I Wanted to get in and buy a house before prices climbed and capitalize on the market created to reestablish a career.
Was really hoping for a yes vote. Of course there is risk, but as another poster put it best: Calgary has just lost its mojo. Nothing ever gets done because everyone freaks out at the possibility of the slightest tax hike. I don’t like this Calgary.
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Sorry was trying to find a way to link the video, but it's up on youtube.
Indeed it was very bad. They got obliterated by Councillor Gondek shortly after.
My post-mortem:
Extremely late breaking deal was fatal. No controlled narrative (In extremely long exploratory phase) because yes (which were qualified on having a deal) sat on the sidelines for a long time waiting. When it did come together at one minute to midnight. It was bungled. A lot of trust lost. The deal was good, I think it would have been a yes (or closer to yes) had the deal come together much earlier and more smoothly.
Not enough shiny balls. I maintained that an arena contingent on yes, would have swung things. BidCo insisted that this would have run afoul of the movement toward 80%+ recycled venues. But is was the paradox of the bid - not a lot of new stuff, but still a pretty high price tag.
Other unforced errors (like above video) and several others.
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Last edited by Bunk; 11-14-2018 at 12:44 AM.
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The oil price people hear means nothing as long as WCS WTI gap is huge because pipeline projects get delayed or killed and there is no access to market for the oil.
Happy to include the gap issue and the lack of pipelines for explanations chronic economic woes. But more often than not I find people blame the economy on the oil prices, which everyone saw take a nose dive in 2014 and hasn't recovered since.
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Originally Posted by Bunk
Indeed it was very bad. They got obliterated by Councillor Gondek shortly after.
My post-mortem:
Extremely late breaking deal was fatal. No controlled narrative (I’m extremely long exploratory phase) because yes (which were qualified on having a deal) sat on the sidelines for a long time waiting. When it did come together at one minute to midnight. It was bungled. A lot of trust lost. The deal was good, I think it would have been a yes (or closer to yes) had the deal come together much earlier and more smoothly.
Not enough shiny balls. I maintained that an arena contingent on yes, would have swung things. BidCo insisted that this would have run afoul of the movement toward 80%+ recycled venues. But is was the paradox of the bid - not a lot of new stuff, but still a pretty high price tag.
Other unforced errors (like above video) and several others.
Happy to include the gap issue and the lack of pipelines for explanations chronic economic woes. But more often than not I find people blame the economy on the oil prices, which everyone saw take a nose dive in 2014 and hasn't recovered since.
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I'd say this also hurts Calgary's reputation as an athletic training area which was a legacy from the first Olympics. If I was an amateur athlete, I would think twice about coming here now since the community support has essentially evaporated.
So do we just let some of these facilities crumble past their due dates now?
No we will work with government to upgrade them. The provincial government paid 10 million and winsport paid 8.8 million to upgrade the bobsled track and replaces its refrigeration system.
Do you think we have done no maintenance on these facilities for 30 years in hopes that another Olympics will save them?
The Nordic Center added snow making and snow storage to extend the training season.
These are good facilities that will be renovated as required to keep them useful with the support of government as has happened previously
We will still be the site for winter training along with Quebec in the east because we have things like the Oval and the Nordic Center. And because these are training centres they will be maintained as required.
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Bid was half assed from day one with no legacy infrastructure. So not surprised by the result. I voted yes with the somewhat naive hope that as things moved forward the plan would significantly improve.
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We will still be the site for winter training along with Quebec in the east because we have things like the Oval and the Nordic Center. And because these are training centres they will be maintained as required.
Pages 5-7 of the BidCo Hosting Plan outline what is required for the facilities should they receive funding.
Would be curious if you know of any alternative sources of funding to accomplish the same goals?
Pages 5-7 of the BidCo Hosting Plan outline what is required for the facilities should they receive funding.
Would be curious if you know of any alternative sources of funding to accomplish the same goals?
That identifies what was required to host the Olympics which is different than what is required. The Bid Exploration Comittee report has a far better breakdown of the things they would upgrade. A lot of which is not required to operate these facilities as community or training facilities but would be required for the Olympics
As for funding I suspect they will leverage programs that are available like say when they replaced all the seating in the oval using Canada 150 grants.
So if you can explain to me how these projects got funded without the Olympics than I will tell you how we will find new projects.
Anyway this is the last I’m posting on the topic as I have spent far too much time reading through and posting on all this stuff. These facilities will be fine, Calgary will be fine, the hyperbole about this from both sides is ridiculous. Nothing changed about Calgary or its future in the last 24hrs.
I think one of the next candidates for mayor should propose a $100 property tax increase so we can end homelessness in Calgary. I look forward to this candidate winning 70% of the vote because we live in such a pure-hearted and altruistic City.
A hundred bucks. It's a f****** lift ticket. They should do it anyway. It's not like most administrations last longer than three terms as it is. $400M triggers $4B that was not coming here. Have they included a new arena in the price the thing probably would have passed. I am so mad at everyone involved and opposed.
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Lol. Calgary’s economy is in the toilet and it’s best days are behind us because we voted not to bid on hosting an Olympic Games. Give me a break.
Hosting would have been cool but let’s be honest, we are not and never will be a world class city. New York, Los Angeles, Tokyo, London... THOSE are world class cities. What the hell does “world class city” even mean and why do people care? This is still a great place to live and it will be in the future. I couldn’t care less if some hack from somewhere else thinks we’re world class or not.
Such doom and gloom over this.
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Location: A simple man leading a complicated life....
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Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame
The implicit expectation seems to be to wait until oil hits $100 again and the oil companies come back in droves. I just don't see that happening either. The City, nor CED, nor ANDP, nor the "No" side seem to have any answers.
I'd also use the Pittsburgh example before Detroit; at least Pittsburgh is moving on from its former commodity economy, but it took a long time. I believe the former Mayor even lent advisory services to the City of Calgary or Chamber of Commerce not too long ago.
The province was in worse shape in 1980 when we made a bid for the 1988 Olympics. Back then it was considered prestige and every city in the world wanted in on a chance to host. We had to pay the IOC for all their costs when they came to Calgary and examine our bid and possible facilities. It was felt that hosting the games would help build up the image of Calgary and get us on the road to prosperity. That and an enticing offer of some brand new shiny toys in a new hockey arena, ski jump, speed skating oval and so on.
Focus to today where we have an Olympic image that has been greatly tarnished with scandals, corruption and the Russian blood doping. The IOC now struggles to get cities and countries to bid for an Olympics and at times it looked like they were begging Calgary to make a bid. It's not the prestige that it was back in the 80's. No new shiny toys to offer Calgarians, just fixer uppers and band aids for some existing facilities like the Dome and McMahon Stadium. I believe that hurt that YES side in their attempt to convince Calgarians.
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Last edited by Dion; 11-14-2018 at 01:25 AM.
Reason: more added
