HNIC: Nylander officially on the trade block

[Kybb79]

I like the thought of getting Nylander then i remember he was invisible against Boston in the playoffs last season. He is also soft. Too bad we can't throw that kind of money at a player like Evander Kane.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

I don't get it either. Paying players strictly on potential is dangerous (ie see Oilers)

I don't see how he is a "game breaker" or a 7+ million dollar player. He's a 20G 60P player thus far.

Well if you watch the player instead of just looking at the stats sheet you might see why people think he is a game breaking talent. They do that in the NHL, its called scouting.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Well if you watch the player instead of just looking at the stats sheet you might see why people think he is a game breaking talent. They do that in the NHL, its called scouting.

Thanks for being so condescending, much appreciated. Solid contribution.

[Bleeding Red]

Again, the last Laff offer (according to Sportsnet) was $7.5 over 8 yrs. No deal.

Nylander seems stuck on at least $8 per year -to the point where it looks like he is willing to forgo the season.

Adjust the cap numbers to show him at $8, Tkuchuk at $7.5, and a goalie at $6 and see where the numbers are.

The only question I am asking is - Is Nylander good enough (or will he be) to be the highest paid Flames player EVER.

I don't think so. pass.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

Again, the last Laff offer (according to Sportsnet) was $7.5 over 8 yrs. No deal.

Nylander seems stuck on at least $8 per year -to the point where it looks like he is willing to forgo the season.

Adjust the cap numbers to show him at $8, Tkuchuk at $7.5, and a goalie at $6 and see where the numbers are.

The only question I am asking is - Is Nylander good enough (or will he be) to be the highest paid Flames player EVER.

I don't think so. pass.

The biggest issue is he knows, full well, they need a defenseman. He has no rights in terms of no trade clause. He’s worried he’s going to sign a deal and get dealt right away. How many $7mil forwards does that team need?

He’d be playing already if he had been drafted by a team with less forward options/money spent.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

Again, the last Laff offer (according to Sportsnet) was $7.5 over 8 yrs. No deal.

Nylander seems stuck on at least $8 per year -to the point where it looks like he is willing to forgo the season.

Adjust the cap numbers to show him at $8, Tkuchuk at $7.5, and a goalie at $6 and see where the numbers are.

The only question I am asking is - Is Nylander good enough (or will he be) to be the highest paid Flames player EVER.

I don't think so. pass.

I love the idea of this.

If Nylander truly has an offer of 7.5 and is holding out for 8, that is half a million per year

So if he misses the year, he gives up 7.5 million this year to get 500 K per year more. It will all be worth it in 15 years.

Dumbass.

[David Struch]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

Adjust the cap numbers to show him at $8, Tkuchuk at $7.5, and a goalie at $6 and see where the numbers are.

Alright,

2019-20 Calgary Flames:

Gaudreau 6,75 Monahan 6,375 Lindholm 4,85
Tkachuk 7,5 Nylander 8,0 Neal 5,75
Dubé ,778 Backlund 5,35 Czarnik 1,25
Mangiapane ,715 Ryan 3,125 Jankowski 1,675
Foo ,900

Giordano 6,75 Andersson ,755
Hanifin 4,95 Hamonic 3,857
Välimäki ,894 Kylington ,730
Valiev ,700

New Goalie 6,0
Rittich 1,0

Salary Cap $82,000,000
Cap Hit $80,156,308
Buyouts 1,500,000
Bonuses $747,500
Cap Space $1,843,692

[GullFoss]

Two thoughts:

1) the 7.5m is a rumor

2) Perhaps it's gotten to the point where it's gotten personal and he'd rather forgo the season than give an inch to dubas or the organization. I mean, he's already lost $1.55m by sitting out. That's money the organization has stolen from him by refusing to negotiate fairly until now.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Two thoughts:

1) the 7.5m is a rumor

2) Perhaps it's gotten to the point where it's gotten personal and he'd rather forgo the season than give an inch to dubas or the organization. I mean, he's already lost $1.55m by sitting out. That's money the organization has stolen from him by refusing to negotiate fairly until now.

What did Marcellus Wallace say? Pride never helps. It only hurts.

Not sure what you mean by fair. I am sure they have made an offer that he rejected. Within their rights.

[dammage79]

Maybe he just doesn't want to play for the Leafs. Wouldn't shock me to see a trade and then an immediate signing of a 6x6 or something like that.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Well if you watch the player instead of just looking at the stats sheet you might see why people think he is a game breaking talent. They do that in the NHL, its called scouting.

As a casual reader of this thread, your post would have been much more enlightening if you had elaborated on the "game breaking talent" part.

I understand the "F U, you're wrong" sentiment that we (I) sometimes use during disagreements, but I want to know why he's valued so highly beyond points. Your post suggests you know why. Do tell. End it with a diss for all I care, but don't just snark and bail.

[bigrangy]

Nylander doesn't lose anything for sitting out until December 1st. He'll get this year's salary entirely in signing bonuses from whoever signs him I would almost guarantee it.

He'd be a cool piece for the Flames but the acquisition cost would not be feasible I think.

[Bleeding Red]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Maybe he just doesn't want to play for the Leafs. Wouldn't shock me to see a trade and then an immediate signing of a 6x6 or something like that.

If the wants out why not just demand a trade.

If his agent had gone public with a trade demand that might have happened weeks ago - the theme song of Toronto fandom for the last 6 months has been "any d-man for a nylander"

Better yet, if he is willing to sign for $6x6 elsewhere, why not just sign an offer sheet? The compensation at that amount is (correct me if I'm wrong) a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. (Similar to the offers in this thread)

If the number Nylander wants was reasonable I think a deal would have been done by now. Any scenario involving Nylander has to include a seemingly unreasonable number - $8-$9 mil per year.

[savemedrzaius]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

Again, the last Laff offer (according to Sportsnet) was $7.5 over 8 yrs. No deal.

Nylander seems stuck on at least $8 per year -to the point where it looks like he is willing to forgo the season.

Adjust the cap numbers to show him at $8, Tkuchuk at $7.5, and a goalie at $6 and see where the numbers are.

The only question I am asking is - Is Nylander good enough (or will he be) to be the highest paid Flames player EVER.

I don't think so. pass.

Just wondering where on Sportsnet you saw 7.5? I haven't seen that anywhere.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

I don't get it either. Paying players strictly on potential is dangerous (ie see Oilers)

I don't see how he is a "game breaker" or a 7+ million dollar player. He's a 20G 60P player thus far.

Nope. He has those numbers because he hasn't seen as many minutes as guys who score more. His scoring rate (points per 60 minutes of ice time) puts him almost exactly where Sean Monahan is at even strength, in the top 50 in the NHL. But his power play rate is top 15 - ahead of Matthews & McDavid. The problem is that he's been on the ice for less than 50% of his team's power play time - otherwise he'd likely have scored 70+ in both of the past two seasons. If you look at closest comparables between 2016 and 2018 in both game states, the closest names are Sidney Crosby, Blake Wheeler and Mikael Granlund.

The thing Nylander is elite at is carrying the puck. He carries it out of his own zone more than anyone on the Leafs, and he carries into the other team's zone more than anyone on the Leafs. Having a guy be the guy to move the puck out of your zone and up the ice has a lot of value, not only offensively but defensively.

So yes, if I were another team, 8 years at anything less than 8 would be something I'd be pretty okay with. The problem is that you likely have to give up a lot for the privilege of signing him to that deal.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by David Struch

Alright,

2019-20 Calgary Flames:

Gaudreau 6,75 Monahan 6,375 Lindholm 4,85
Tkachuk 7,5 Nylander 8,0 Neal 5,75
Dubé ,778 Backlund 5,35 Czarnik 1,25
Mangiapane ,715 Ryan 3,125 Jankowski 1,675
Foo ,900

Giordano 6,75 Andersson ,755
Hanifin 4,95 Hamonic 3,857
Välimäki ,894 Kylington ,730
Valiev ,700

New Goalie 6,0
Rittich 1,0

Salary Cap $82,000,000
Cap Hit $80,156,308
Buyouts 1,500,000
Bonuses $747,500
Cap Space $1,843,692

I guess we're sending Frolik and Stone to Toronto in the Nylander trade in order to make the numbers work?

Frolik, Stone ... Phillips? A 1st?

[David Struch]

Originally Posted by driveway

I guess we're sending Frolik and Stone to Toronto in the Nylander trade in order to make the numbers work?

Frolik, Stone ... Phillips? A 1st?

No, my Leaf proposal is Sam Bennett, TJ Brodie + 2019 1st.

Michael Frolík & Michael Stone are not part of the Toronto deal.

[Bleeding Red]

Originally Posted by savemedrzaius

Just wondering where on Sportsnet you saw 7.5? I haven't seen that anywhere.

I'm sure it was an HNIC bit with Johnson.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Maybe he just doesn't want to play for the Leafs. Wouldn't shock me to see a trade and then an immediate signing of a 6x6 or something like that.

I believe this is at least partly true. I believe part of the reason he wants as much as he does is to make his contract untradable. I think he wants to play for the Leafs, but knows he’s the first out after Matthews signs, so he wants to sign a big contract that’ll make him hard to trade, or just get it over with and move him already.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by dammage79

IMO, he's on par with Draisatl money wise. But neither are worth 8m a year. More like 6-6.5 ish.

Nyalnder's a completely different player though. If he came to the flames, based only on pure skill would probably be overshadowed by Johnny only.

And probably becomes the best shooter on the team, maybe tied with Monahan.

I think you hit the nail on the head. In this weird market perhaps someone stupid pays him the money he wants, but I don't think many would think he'd reach 80 points /season. When you start paying a guy $7.5MM+, you're saying he'll lead you in the playoffs. IMO, Nylander isn't going to be the man in the playoffs. Knowing the Leafs' plans for signing two guys ahead of him at higher prices, Leafs ask him to take a discount. The Leafs were not banking on hardass negotiations, but this is what they brought on themselves by not starting negotiating earlier, or at least signing Matthews and Marner to discounts then asking Nylander to also take a discount. The pressure would then be on him to decline. Instead, the Leafs come across as bullies, even though Nylander is overvaluing himself. I personally see Leafs signing him by the deadline, but the damage has been done and they'll have to deal him to sign their two better players this offseason. Given this, there's no incentive for Nylander to take a discount.

Best bet for Dubas is to quickly sign Matthews and Marner over the next two weeks and come back to Nylander and hand him the final offer or he's dealt. Really comes down to bad prioritization on the Leafs part, and not knowing who they're dealing with in Nylander Sr.