[PGT] Flames jobbed by officiating. Lose 3-1 to the Sharks.

[Erick Estrada]

I don’t know why fans focus on one or two players after every loss. It’s a team game and not enough Flames we’re going last night. Bennett isn’t the only guy struggling to finish as Backlund has missed on more opportunities than anyone. On the Bennett peanalty shot play Backlund whiffed on the rebound. It’s a long season and there’s going to be stretchesthe top line goes cold like this last road trip. Pretty well every forward not on that line need to be better as it’s tough to win consistently without secondary scoring.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Bingo

If you don't think in your face sarcasm isn't pissy I can't help you.

Superiority noted.

Bennett has good underlying stats, I'm sorry that annoys you. The underlying stats match the eye test as well, they're not made up. The guy plays with energy, and is creating chances.

It hardly "annoys" me, Im saying they just dont matter very much in the whole scheme of things.....or at least as much as you believe they do.

I wish he'd convert more and he may never convert more but I just don't see an argument where a guy creating doesn't have value to a team and his linemates.

Of course he has some value which is exactly why i stated that very thing.

Its just at what cost is that value.....value? Cause i happen to believe that for 2 million dollars a season, Treliving can find a player who provides more than Bennett has/is at this point in his career.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

On another note, I’d love to retire the “I can’t help you” saying. Probably just a personal gear grinder, but the poster isn’t asking for help. I have always thought it’s kind of a condescending expression. I know I’ve used it myself a few times and generally it’s because I wanted the other person to feel dumb.

I hope you found his "I guess everyone that disagrees with you is pissy" comment equally as gear grinding.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

First, that is an appeal to authority. Second, Bennett did not score, and we lost. So it's an appeal to an authority who failed.



The problem is that one of those things is dramatically more valuable than the rest put together. And it is the one thing Bennett is massively failing at. If we are going to succeed, we need Bennett scoring goals. Ignoring his lack of actual production in favour of what-ifs is akin to focusing on how buying a Lotto Max ticket means you could win $55 million on Friday while ignoring the fact that you're most likely starting Saturday empty handed.



Anecdote =/= Data.

It's not an appeal to authority ... it's a fact

Down a goal
Shortened bench
Bennett to second line

All facts.

Production is always more valuable than chances, no doubt.

But once my productive guys have been given key roles, I'm filling out my top lines with the guys that create energy, scoring chances, and compete on every shift.

You wouldn't?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Superiority noted.



It hardly "annoys" me, Im saying they just dont matter very much in the whole scheme of things.....or at least as much as you believe they do.




Of course he has some value which is exactly why i stated that very thing.

Its just at what cost is that value.....value? Cause i happen to believe that for 2 million dollars a season, Treliving can find a player who provides more than Bennett has/is at this point in his career.

Oh man give it a break.

First you're sarcastic.
Then you suggest anyone that disagrees with me is deemed pissy.

Just own it and move on.

Bennett is the 6th or 7th best forward on this team, why does Treliving have to replace that player now?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

I think you both can be right. Bennett goes to the net. He gets quality shots off, but watching Bennett shoot the puck vs a confident scorer like Monahan, Mackinnon, or Cammalleri....there is not a lot of zip nor is he picking corners.

Next stat needing measurement? Shot location and shot speed. I see him shoot into the chest, or flip it at the net, or miss the net entirely. He didn't exactly step into his shot on the penalty shot attempt last night. I'm being subjective, but you can see it.

I agree with this. I can't recall a laser by Bennett. Jankowski has a harder shot and Neal showed a couple games ago that he can still fire it. Gaudreau shoots harder.

A 5 hole attempt on a penalty shot is a desperate, unconfident choice, especially without a serious deke beforehand. Seems like Bennett has adjusted to NHL defencemen, but not NHL goalies.

[transplant99]

LOL...ok then.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

On another note, I’d love to retire the “I can’t help you” saying. Probably just a personal gear grinder, but the poster isn’t asking for help. I have always thought it’s kind of a condescending expression. I know I’ve used it myself a few times and generally it’s because I wanted the other person to feel dumb.

Do you object to "then there's nothing more we can discuss" or "there's no use debating this any more"? That's really the sentiment being expressed.

[Resolute 14]

Bingo, you are arguing that your position is correct because Bill Peters agrees with you. That is classic appeal to authority. Also, it presumes that Peters thinks the same way you do. For all we know, Peters wanted him out there to go in the corners and bang people around, and leave creating scoring chances to his players who, you know, score.

Moreover, the premise that we are arguing is that Sam Bennett - nominally a scoring forward - is failing at his job because he is not scoring. Yes, he's doing other things well. But he's not doing what we need him to do, and there's just no way to sugar coat that.

[flamesforcup]

Jankowski needed to get that tap-in in the 3rd like cmon if that was Monahan he wouldve finished that. Same with Bennett he needs to finish now the honey moon of him being unlucky is coming to an end we need to see something now. If he doesnt finish with at least 50 points (in the high scoring season) than i think we can officially say bust and move on. He can create plays but cant finish at all.

[Toonage]

For all the "should have scored" comments it seems we're ignoring just how well Martin Jones played.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Do you object to "then there's nothing more we can discuss" or "there's no use debating this any more"? That's really the sentiment being expressed.

Except that wasn’t what was said.

[kukkudo]

Martin Jones has been mediocre all season. Flames have a habit of making goalies look unreal.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by flamesforcup

Jankowski needed to get that tap-in in the 3rd like cmon if that was Monahan he wouldve finished that. Same with Bennett he needs to finish now the honey moon of him being unlucky is coming to an end we need to see something now. If he doesnt finish with at least 50 points (in the high scoring season) than i think we can officially say bust and move on. He can create plays but cant finish at all.

Jankowski and Backlund had good chances. Jones saved against Jankowski but Janko put it back into the centre of the net and made it easier for him, instead of going corner.

Backs missed his second yawning goal in the last few games

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by VilleN

But what if he played better than Rittich would have?

Yep, just because he's on a hot streak doesn't mean things are going to go his way every game. He might have been able to stop the first goal but he might have let in one or more of the big saves Smith made in the second.

I'm happy with the way Rittich is playing but it's still premature to say this is the norm for him now and that he's not going to go back to playing like a backup.

[Toonage]

Re: Jones being mediocre: That may be, but last night he played legitimately well. As did Smith.

I saw a listless team that took far too long to get it together and when they finally did they ran into great goaltending and poor officiating which limited what few chances they had left.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Bingo, you are arguing that your position is correct because Bill Peters agrees with you. That is classic appeal to authority. Also, it presumes that Peters thinks the same way you do. For all we know, Peters wanted him out there to go in the corners and bang people around, and leave creating scoring chances to his players who, you know, score.

Moreover, the premise that we are arguing is that Sam Bennett - nominally a scoring forward - is failing at his job because he is not scoring. Yes, he's doing other things well. But he's not doing what we need him to do, and there's just no way to sugar coat that.

I would suggest the primary reason Bennett was out late was because Neal was benched and being sent a message....and rightfully so. Otherwise he would not normally have been on the ice in that situation.

Also I just noticed that 8 forwards saw more ice last night...not including Neal who normally would have far more.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I agree with this. I can't recall a laser by Bennett. Jankowski has a harder shot and Neal showed a couple games ago that he can still fire it. Gaudreau shoots harder.



A 5 hole attempt on a penalty shot is a desperate, unconfident choice, especially without a serious deke beforehand. Seems like Bennett has adjusted to NHL defencemen, but not NHL goalies.

A 5-hole attempt on a power play is what now? That’s a pretty big reach. We see 5-hole gold on penalty shots/in shootouts frequently.

Over analyzing things here.

Sharks had the better goalie in a game with two good teams. Smith blinked, Jones didn’t. That will happen.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I hope you found his "I guess everyone that disagrees with you is pissy" comment equally as gear grinding.

I have not seen that expression used frequently. Whereas “then I can’t help you” is a somewhat commonly used expression that has an underlying tone of superiority.

Not sure what your comment to me means TBH. I don’t agree with anything that poster is saying. And I’m in no way attacking you personally. Just stating that is an expression I don’t care for. Which is probably entirely off topic to the conversation so I regret even bringing it up.

[flamesforcup]

Originally Posted by Toonage

For all the "should have scored" comments it seems we're ignoring just how well Martin Jones played.

If Jankowski lifts that puck a little bit its an easy goal. Monahan would have scored there easily.