2018/2019 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[djsFlames]

I like (current) Monahan more than Kopitar and the latter won 2 cups with LA, so whatever theory is circulating that you have to have a certain quality of center to win a championship can go #### itself.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

I like (current) Monahan more than Kopitar and the latter won 2 cups with LA, so whatever theory is circulating that you have to have a certain quality of center to win a championship can go #### itself.

Lol!

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Lol!

This from the same guy who said ...

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Listing a bunch of names doesn't really prove a point...

"LOL!" indeed.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Lol!

Custom user title: Top Contributor.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Listing a bunch of names doesn't really prove a point, especially when multiple names play in the same line.

I think the flames are definitely missing either elite goaltending or an elite centre to be considered true contenders.

It absolutely proves the point, the point being that the Flames do not lack centre depth. They aren’t just names, they’re centres.

Where they play isn’t relevant to the depth argument at centre, but may speak to the depth at other forward positions. Monahan, Lindholm, Backlund, and Ryan are a very good set at centre, if they play elsewhere to fill a need while Jankowski or Dube fills in a lower centre position, then that’s just the obvious benefit of having centre depth.

I’d go one step further on your argument and say the Flames lack an elite player period, but I think the phrase is thrown around pretty liberally, more so after a Cup is won.

What’s lacking and what will stop them from being a contender however isn’t another centre, it’s a great goaltender. We don’t have one, and we need one.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

One correction, Kopitar and Bergeron and Toews all won Selkes after winning the cup, which suggests this is a chicken-and-egg scenario.

I'm obviously not saying there's a legal requirement that the Stanley Cup winner must show receipt of a Selke winner before they can lift it. I'm merely suggesting that all of the Stanley Cup winners have had top tier talent, especially down center.

Depth, hot goaltending, great contracts. They all play a part, but the common denominator has been top tier talent when it comes to lifting that Cup.

[dammage79]

As I said yesterday. Flames have 8 out of 12 FW's that can play center. Depth there is fine.

Flames have as of right now, one and a half goaltenders given Smith has appeared to be....really behind the 8 ball to start the year.

I know like everyone else and their dog knows that we need help at goalie. Where that comes from is TBD, but skater depth isn't the issue today, it's net.

Once that part of the problem gets sorted out then we could talk about upgrading a FW or two (which I don't think we need to do)

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It absolutely proves the point, the point being that the Flames do not lack centre depth. They aren’t just names, they’re centres.

Where they play isn’t relevant to the depth argument at centre, but may speak to the depth at other forward positions. Monahan, Lindholm, Backlund, and Ryan are a very good set at centre, if they play elsewhere to fill a need while Jankowski or Dube fills in a lower centre position, then that’s just the obvious benefit of having centre depth.

I’d go one step further on your argument and say the Flames lack an elite player period, but I think the phrase is thrown around pretty liberally, more so after a Cup is won.

What’s lacking and what will stop them from being a contender however isn’t another centre, it’s a great goaltender. We don’t have one, and we need one.

Gaudreau is an elite point producer.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I'm obviously not saying there's a legal requirement that the Stanley Cup winner must show receipt of a Selke winner before they can lift it. I'm merely suggesting that all of the Stanley Cup winners have had top tier talent, especially down center.

Depth, hot goaltending, great contracts. They all play a part, but the common denominator has been top tier talent when it comes to lifting that Cup.

In the past we’ve seen teams with elite players and elite depth dominate the league. But the league also had a 57/43 revenue split and allowed contracts as long as you wanted and front loaded. This gave rich teams and teams with elite talent an advantage to keep their stars and add/keep depth. Then the 2nd lockout happened rolling back the revenue split and blocking teams from front loading star players and wrapping them up for 10 plus years. Of course the nhl grandfathered in existing contracts. But we are almost in an nhl where these deals aren’t making an impact. For me 4 players still remain that are impact guys. Crosby ovechkin backstrom and Keith. 3 of these guys play on the last 3 cup winning teams.

Moving forward I see more teams that have elite talent not having any space to keep their guys leading to more teams with glaring weaknesses still bring a contender. Imo flames are a goalie away as I don’t see too many super teams in the way these days. Their centres are just fine

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It absolutely proves the point, the point being that the Flames do not lack centre depth. They aren’t just names, they’re centres.

Where they play isn’t relevant to the depth argument at centre, but may speak to the depth at other forward positions. Monahan, Lindholm, Backlund, and Ryan are a very good set at centre, if they play elsewhere to fill a need while Jankowski or Dube fills in a lower centre position, then that’s just the obvious benefit of having centre depth.

I’d go one step further on your argument and say the Flames lack an elite player period, but I think the phrase is thrown around pretty liberally, more so after a Cup is won.

What’s lacking and what will stop them from being a contender however isn’t another centre, it’s a great goaltender. We don’t have one, and we need one.

Flames have the 6th, 10th, 11th and 13th top scorers in the league, and the 4th best statistical d-man that's looking Norris caliber rn.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by dammage79

As I said yesterday. Flames have 8 out of 12 FW's that can play center. Depth there is fine.

Flames have as of right now, one and a half goaltenders given Smith has appeared to be....really behind the 8 ball to start the year.

I know like everyone else and their dog knows that we need help at goalie. Where that comes from is TBD, but skater depth isn't the issue today, it's net.

Once that part of the problem gets sorted out then we could talk about upgrading a FW or two (which I don't think we need to do)

Backlund is the second line center and can't be relied on to produce on the powerplay.

That means there is a centre depth problem in my opinion. I'd you have elite goaltending and elite wingers, you can compensate for that. We'll see if that group ends up including tkachuk and Lindholm.

Since the start of last season, backlund has 11 points in 206 minutes of pp time. I don't know what that is as a rate, but it looks like it's less productive than jankowski minute to minute. Not a problem in and of itself, but it's a problem if there is no one else than can step up, which thus far hasn't been the case.

Most teams have a big discrepancy between their 1st and 2nd units, but I think Calgary's second unit is maybe a bit worse than it is to playoff teams around the league. Would love someone to chime in with stats on that.

Tkachuk and backlund still need a finisher because of that weakness. They can't carry a non producer and produce on their own, they need a third guy. Hopefully that's Neal.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Backlund is the second line center and can't be relied on to produce on the powerplay.

That means there is a centre depth problem in my opinion. I'd you have elite goaltending and elite wingers, you can compensate for that. We'll see if that group ends up including tkachuk and Lindholm.

Since the start of last season, backlund has 11 points in 206 minutes of pp time. I don't know what that is as a rate, but it looks like it's less productive than jankowski minute to minute. Not a problem in and of itself, but it's a problem if there is no one else than can step up, which thus far hasn't been the case.

Most teams have a big discrepancy between their 1st and 2nd units, but I think Calgary's second unit is maybe a bit worse than it is to playoff teams around the league. Would love someone to chime in with stats on that.

Tkachuk and backlund still need a finisher because of that weakness. They can't carry a non producer and produce on their own, they need a third guy. Hopefully that's Neal.

David Kreji has 16 PPP since the start of last year. Not much more than Backlund, and Backlund played on a bad powerplay.

I suspect a lot of second line centres get to play on the first PP unit, along with the first line centre.

I notice no one is mentioning LV or Nashville, the finalists in the last two years. Surely they are considered Stanley Cup Contenders for those years?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

David Kreji has 16 PPP since the start of last year. Not much more than Backlund, and Backlund played on a bad powerplay.

Yeah, 5 more points in 30 less minutes of pp time.

I suspect a lot of second line centres get to play on the first PP unit, along with the first line centre.

I expect the ones that produce points do.

I notice no one is mentioning LV or Nashville, the finalists in the last two years. Surely they are considered Stanley Cup Contenders for those years?

what would like them to say? They have what I'm suggesting Calgary is lacking:

Elite goaltending.

[Love]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

I like (current) Monahan more than Kopitar and the latter won 2 cups with LA, so whatever theory is circulating that you have to have a certain quality of center to win a championship can go #### itself.

Oh my

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Yeah, 5 more points in 30 less minutes of pp time.

I expect the ones that produce points do.

what would like them to say? They have what I'm suggesting Calgary is lacking:

Elite goaltending.

I don't disagree about goaltending.

My point is that you can't create an exact recipe for success. You need elite goaltending or goaltending that is top notch at the right time. you need a few really great players and good depth, but I'm not going to say that you need at least two elite Cs, or that a decent goalie who steps up at the right time (say, Belfour) can't accomplish it.

The Flames are, I think a good goalie away at least. I think their D and forwards may be good enough, especially over a few years. I think Gaudreau/Tkachuk/Monahan/Lindholm might be enough if you get solid contributions from Backlund/Neal/Bennett/Frolik/and at least some of Dube/Jankowski/rookies. The D is pretty solid if Andersson/Valimaki keep it up. Gio is still top notch and underrated. Brodie is good. Hanifin has a big ceiling. Hamonic is an underrated defensive man.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Love

Oh my

Kopitar was a 70 point center when they won the cups. I think Monahan is currently an 80 point guy when healthy and has most of the same 200 foot game down.

"Lol" and "Oh my" don't really provide any counter arguments.

[Oling_Roachinen]

I love Monahan, I'll often bring up Darryl Sutter's comments on him in support of his effectiveness outside of pure offense.

However, I don't think he was at all comparable to Kopitar was when they won the Cups in that 200 foot game area.

I also think it's a bit unfair to call Kopitar a 70 point player. He was the catalyst for the Kings. He was the offense.

70 points when Carter is scoring 50 and Williams is scoring 43 to round out the top 3.

That's Prime Iginlaesque numbers. When he was putting up 70 points, Conroy was putting up 50 and Donavan was putting up 45. Iginla was more than a "70 point player" then too.

[Phagoof]

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Kopitar was a 70 point center when they won the cups. I think Monahan is currently an 80 point guy when healthy and has most of the same 200 foot game down.

"Lol" and "Oh my" don't really provide any counter arguments.

Kopitar was a 70 point center that you could not take the puck off of, similar to Getzlaf. Even if Monahan scores an equal number of points, his overall impact on the game doesn't match what those two brought in their primes.

I hope he continues to develop, but Monahan and Kopitar aren't in the same league when comparing their overall games.

[dino7c]

Flames with in his prime Quick would be contenders... people forget he stood on his head at times.

So, trade rumors?