MLB Free Agency Thread. - Page 17 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

JiriHrdina · 12-18-2006, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flambers

What I mean by a Hard Cap is there is no over spending. All contracts are sent to the league and the league ensures the team is under the cap.

... but I don't think this will ever happen

Nope because MLB only cares about the big key markets.

As long as everything is hunkey dorey in Chicago, NY, Boston, LA, etc they couldn't give a rat's rear end about what happens in KC, Pittsburgh and Minny.

flambers · 12-18-2006, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Nope because MLB only cares about the big key markets.

As long as everything is hunkey dorey in Chicago, NY, Boston, LA, etc they couldn't give a rat's rear end about what happens in KC, Pittsburgh and Minny.

Yep, I totally agree. Those 4 market's totally run the league.

Jiggy_12 · 12-18-2006, 11:56 PM

Sportsnet article here about the Wells signing, with Wells saying some nice things:

Link

"The biggest thing was leaving flexibility for this team to get better over the next few years," said Wells. "By no means did I want to sign here and hinder this team from getting better."

The contract definitely allows room in the next few years. The Jays have a few years to contend here before they need to make some huge decisions. Good move by JP and Vernon to recognize that.

Asked about the possibility of getting paid more elsewhere:

"For me to be selfish, to be greedy and want more and more, this is plenty. My kids can't spend all this money, this is enough to set my family up for the rest of their lives."

Does he want to finish his career as a Jay?

"This gives me the possibility of doing that," he said. "It would be great to be a Blue Jay for life and hopefully to win some championships and to maybe don a Blue Jay hat one day in the Hall of Fame."

That last quote...I just love it.

What happened to all the people that said Wells was unhappy in Toronto and wanted out?

Never was he quoted as saying that, so I love quotes like this that prove those wrong that doubted his desire to remain a Jay. Hah!

kipperfan · 12-19-2006, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiggy_12

Sportsnet article here about the Wells signing, with Wells saying some nice things:

Link

"The biggest thing was leaving flexibility for this team to get better over the next few years," said Wells. "By no means did I want to sign here and hinder this team from getting better."

The contract definitely allows room in the next few years. The Jays have a few years to contend here before they need to make some huge decisions. Good move by JP and Vernon to recognize that.

Asked about the possibility of getting paid more elsewhere:

"For me to be selfish, to be greedy and want more and more, this is plenty. My kids can't spend all this money, this is enough to set my family up for the rest of their lives."

Does he want to finish his career as a Jay?

"This gives me the possibility of doing that," he said. "It would be great to be a Blue Jay for life and hopefully to win some championships and to maybe don a Blue Jay hat one day in the Hall of Fame."

That last quote...I just love it.

What happened to all the people that said Wells was unhappy in Toronto and wanted out?

Never was he quoted as saying that, so I love quotes like this that prove those wrong that doubted his desire to remain a Jay. Hah!

HAHA

I love it too. To all those who said we wouldnt and couldnt re sign him and that he was as good as gone...eat it!

Now for the big question, with Vernon locked up for a long time and outfield depth a plenty...do we trade Alex Rios for a starter?

If the anwser is yes, what does a young all star like him bring back in return? Can we get a 2-3 starter for him? Or would it more likely be a 4-5 guy?

Caged Great · 12-19-2006, 04:20 AM

Is it just me or does the idea of trading an all star like Rios for a 4th starter sound absolutely ######ed. To me, its like trading Tanguay for Cloutier....

kipperfan · 12-19-2006, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Is it just me or does the idea of trading an all star like Rios for a 4th starter sound absolutely ######ed. To me, its like trading Tanguay for Cloutier....

Well yes and no. In baseball a starting pitcher is a very valued commodity, case in point the contracts given out to crappy pitchers like Gill Meche and Jason Marquis this off season.

Your right it would hurt to lose the guy, but what else can JP do? He got himself into this mess by not making a deal sooner or signing any free agents. Now his fellow GM's know they have him by the n**s and can ask for the moon.

flambers · 12-19-2006, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Is it just me or does the idea of trading an all star like Rios for a 4th starter sound absolutely ######ed. To me, its like trading Tanguay for Cloutier....

I agree its not a player I would want to lose but the Jays have little options. If they want to make a push at the Playoffs they need another starter (one at least probably two). The player the other teams will demand is Rios, JP has a tough decision to make.

Caged Great · 12-19-2006, 08:15 AM

I'd rather spend 10+ on a marginal 4-5th starter and keep rios than ditch him for a bonified 4th.

We've got Janssen, Marcum, McGowan, League, Rosario, Towers, and Romero who all could start.

I just don't see why we have to lose one of our offensive threats for nothing. I'd rather have Rios than Thomas, and that's basically what it is all about.

Caged Great · 12-19-2006, 08:18 AM

If they make the playoffs, its entirely possible to go with a rotation of Halladay-Burnett-Chacin only due to the travel days in between starts with maybe a spot start from the 4th guy if one needs an extra day.

flambers · 12-19-2006, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caged Great

I'd rather spend 10+ on a marginal 4-5th starter and keep rios than ditch him for a bonified 4th.

We've got Janssen, Marcum, McGowan, League, Rosario, Towers, and Romero who all could start.

I just don't see why we have to lose one of our offensive threats for nothing. I'd rather have Rios than Thomas, and that's basically what it is all about.

The problem is out of your list League is the setup guy he is not going to start and Romero and McGowen are not ready. That leaves it between Marcum and Towers. Marcum is an okay choice for the 5th starter but I sure would not want to count Towers as one of the starters. Thats leaves a big hole with the fourth starter. The Jays need an established quality Arm if they want to take the next step. Is it worth the price of Rios or Lind? I am not sure either.

flambers · 12-19-2006, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caged Great

If they make the playoffs, its entirely possible to go with a rotation of Halladay-Burnett-Chacin only due to the travel days in between starts with maybe a spot start from the 4th guy if one needs an extra day.

Sure but thats a huge "IF". They will need to finish way over .500 to make the playoffs. There is no way that will happen with only 3 quality starters.

Caged Great · 12-19-2006, 08:51 AM

They did go over .500 last season with basically 3 regular starters (When combinations of Halladay, Burnett, and Chacin were hurt).

I'm just saying that it would be better to sign a marginal guy or go with what we've got than it would be to ruin a part of our offense in exchange for a marginal guy.

kipperfan · 12-19-2006, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caged Great

They did go over .500 last season with basically 3 regular starters (When combinations of Halladay, Burnett, and Chacin were hurt).

I'm just saying that it would be better to sign a marginal guy or go with what we've got than it would be to ruin a part of our offense in exchange for a marginal guy.

As much as I like Rios, Thomas if healthy will provide much, much more offence then Rios can or will so I dont think that should be a concern.

flambers · 12-19-2006, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caged Great

They did go over .500 last season with basically 3 regular starters (When combinations of Halladay, Burnett, and Chacin were hurt).

I'm just saying that it would be better to sign a marginal guy or go with what we've got than it would be to ruin a part of our offense in exchange for a marginal guy.

Sure but they also had Lilly and they were not close to making the playoff's. As for Injuries I don't see why a guy like AJ would all sudden be healthy. Doc has been hurt two years in a row. Jays have to expect at least one of the top 3 starters to be injured for some time next season.

Sylvanfan · 12-19-2006, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flambers

Sure but they also had Lilly and they were not close to making the playoff's. As for Injuries I don't see why a guy like AJ would all sudden be healthy. Doc has been hurt two years in a row. Jays have to expect at least one of the top 3 starters to be injured for some time next season.

Yeah if the Jays think they're going to get 200+ innings from all three of those guys they're really taking a huge gamble. They need to at the least find a replacement for Lilly. I would hope that Rios would have enough trade value to at least fetch a guy who's capable of being a top 3 starter. If only they'd kept David Bush and suckered Milwaukee into taking Towers instead.

bluejays · 12-19-2006, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Yeah if the Jays think they're going to get 200+ innings from all three of those guys they're really taking a huge gamble. They need to at the least find a replacement for Lilly. I would hope that Rios would have enough trade value to at least fetch a guy who's capable of being a top 3 starter. If only they'd kept David Bush and suckered Milwaukee into taking Towers instead.

I can imagine Riccardi screwing up a deal with Rios. To me, the only thing keeping Rios from being the team MVP and possibly a league MVP, is what's going on upstairs. He always seems to be a tad nervous. His arm is amazing and his speed isn't too bad. Personally, I hope they keep him...then again, I also thought Josh Phelps had similar potential (bat-wise), years back. Rios is coming along well though, and in the next season or two, I could see him being a .310 hitter with some good power. Who else is playing outfield though? You've got Johnson in LF, Wells in CF and Rios in RF. If you give up either Rios or Johnson, who do they Jays have to play either position? (Please don't say McDonald).

flambers · 12-19-2006, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fleury

If you give up either Rios or Johnson, who do they Jays have to play either position? (Please don't say McDonald).

Short term the Jays will play Matt Stairs. Long Term Lind.

Sylvanfan · 12-19-2006, 09:56 AM

You'd be left with Stairs and Lind to patrol the outfield with Wells and Johnson. Although outfield help should be easy enough to trade for. Given the choice I'd try to package up Johnson and prospects to bring in pitching help. One of Rios' problems is that he's best suited to be a #3 hitter, but in the Jays lineup he's either going to be #2 or all the way down to 7. Mind you if you trade Johnson than you don't really have a leadoff hitter either.

CaramonLS · 12-19-2006, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

You'd be left with Stairs and Lind to patrol the outfield with Wells and Johnson. Although outfield help should be easy enough to trade for. Given the choice I'd try to package up Johnson and prospects to bring in pitching help. One of Rios' problems is that he's best suited to be a #3 hitter, but in the Jays lineup he's either going to be #2 or all the way down to 7. Mind you if you trade Johnson than you don't really have a leadoff hitter either.

Gotta improve his walk rates IMO to be a good #3.

At the moment, I'd say hes a #5 - a bit of a free swinger with plenty of power.

CaramonLS · 12-19-2006, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flambers

The problem is out of your list League is the setup guy he is not going to start and Romero and McGowen are not ready. That leaves it between Marcum and Towers. Marcum is an okay choice for the 5th starter but I sure would not want to count Towers as one of the starters. Thats leaves a big hole with the fourth starter. The Jays need an established quality Arm if they want to take the next step. Is it worth the price of Rios or Lind? I am not sure either.

Not the first time I've heard the suggestion for League in the rotation. Heck, I have even heard someone compare him to Brandon Webb (in ERA, K rates, Walks, GB%), although I wouldn't go that far. He was a starter althroughout his career in the minors.

Still, I don't believe he can do it. He simply doesn't have the variety of pitches needed (currently he has a 2 seamer + slider, and a change he has probably used 3 times total at the majors). Relievers can get away with that, starters can't.