Is Mike Smith the new Brian Elliot and is James Neal the new Troy Brouwer?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

The person who should mostly be to blame for goaltending is the goalie himself. The goalie coach does not have a controller that he uses to make the goalies move.

Those trying to scapegoat Sigalet are just trying to shift blame. Players are ultimately responsible and accountable for their own performances. It’s not like there’s a new system that a goalie coach will teach a veteran goalie. You want someone to blame for Smith’s play? You need look no further than Smith and the defense.

Come on, now. Sigalet has a job, and presumably the position exists for a reason.

If Mike Smith is doing things that are costing him, it is Sigalet’s job to analyze, inform Smith, and help make adjustments to improve his game.

It could be how deep he is in his net, could be rebound placement. Is the smaller equipment opening some holes that he needs to compensate for?

Lots of things Sigalet does, I am sure.

And Sigalet probably also can be relied on for an expert opinion that the head coach can consider when deciding whom to play and why

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Come on, now. Sigalet has a job, and presumably the position exists for a reason.

If Mike Smith is doing things that are costing him, it is Sigalet’s job to analyze, inform Smith, and help make adjustments to improve his game.

It could be how deep he is in his net, could be rebound placement. Is the smaller equipment opening some holes that he needs to compensate for?

Lots of things Sigalet does, I am sure.

And Sigalet probably also can be relied on for an expert opinion that the head coach can consider when deciding whom to play and why

When you fail to develop even a single quality NHL calibre goalie over your career as a goalie coach and in fact, seem to only make the guys you work with worse I think its time to question if you have the skills to be an NHL goalie coach at all.

It isn't just mike smith sucking that is the reason for sigalet needing to go, its more the big picture of what he's done and there isn't much to show for it.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Come on, now. Sigalet has a job, and presumably the position exists for a reason.

If Mike Smith is doing things that are costing him, it is Sigalet’s job to analyze, inform Smith, and help make adjustments to improve his game.

It could be how deep he is in his net, could be rebound placement. Is the smaller equipment opening some holes that he needs to compensate for?

Lots of things Sigalet does, I am sure.

And Sigalet probably also can be relied on for an expert opinion that the head coach can consider when deciding whom to play and why

Yep. And at the end of the day who has to implement Sigalet’s suggestions and put them into practice? Smith. Who does the ultimate responsibility boil down to? Smith.

Goaltending coaches do not have the same in game impact that the bench coaches do.

Bottom line is nobody here has any clue how well Sigalet does his job. Those that are convinced he needs to go are just on a witch hunt it would appear because they don’t have any of the information required to know how well Sigalet does his job. And at the end of the day a veteran like Smith is responsible for his own play. I doubt he’d want you blaming his struggles on Sigalet. I think some of you give far too much credit and blame to a goaltending coach, the majority of the credit or blame for a goalie’s play falls squarely on the shoulders of the goalie himself.

[Badgers Nose]

…. at least they are not the new Wregget and Fata.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Most teams draft their top goalies and in fairness to the Flames, they've drafted consensus good goalie prospects. Gillies, Parsons, Macdonald, Irving, Krahn, Brossoit, all the way back to Kidd - they all were either highly thought of at the draft or highly thought of by the time they turned pro. They've also tried the Euro route (Ramo) and the high end backup route (Turek).

It's over a period of time that can't be explained by GM, scouting staff, goalie coaches or anything else.

Just a quick correction. Turek was a starter in St.Louis when we acquired him. He had two full years as backup in Dallas, went to St.Louis and became their starter for two years. Was the starter in Calgary for two full years and then the 3rd year he got injured and when he came back Kipper had taken the starters job from him.

[Calgary_81]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

…. at least they are not the new Wregget and Fata.

Where that Triggered .gif when you need it?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Buff

Just a quick correction. Turek was a starter in St.Louis when we acquired him. He had two full years as backup in Dallas, went to St.Louis and became their starter for two years. Was the starter in Calgary for two full years and then the 3rd year he got injured and when he came back Kipper had taken the starters job from him.

I know Turek was a starter for a short time, but he was thought of as the best backup in the league for quite a while.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I know Turek was a starter for a short time, but he was thought of as the best backup in the league for quite a while.

Smith was barely a starter for most of his career as well. Part of that was because of injury though. He only started more than half his team's games in 4 of his 12 seasons in the league before joining the Flames. And when he joined the Flames he was already past his prime.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Smith was barely a starter for most of his career as well. Part of that was because of injury though. He only started more than half his team's games in 4 of his 12 seasons in the league before joining the Flames. And when he joined the Flames he was already past his prime.

Smith was the number one in Tampa and AZ for almost all the years in each place - look at his starts compared to the other goalies, not just whether he was over 41 games. He backed up Turco for 2 seasons in Dallas and Holmqvist in one season in TB, and that's it. He was A/A with Nittymaki another year. Or are you saying he was a backup to Chad Johnson and Labarbera because he only played 34 games or so one year in Phoenix? I'd say he was a number one for all 6 years in AZ plus two at least in TB.

[DeluxeMoustache]

So I wonder what the deal is with Mike Smith playing at home. Last year he was very strong on the road, and below average at home

This year, it is ugly again.

I have heard joking that it was the altitude, that prolonged time up here has thrown something askew but he performs well at sea level, in an oxygen rich environment. Obviously kidding.

Speaking of kids, he has a lot of them and they are young. I know I saw them last year at Winsport when the Flames were practicing there. Also saw them crawling all over him when he was doing After Hours. (Does he bring his kids to work every day?) I’m all for a guy being a good dad, and it’s cute and all.

I wonder what it is about being here, if there is something off the rink, in his head.

Maybe it’s just bad luck. But bad luck isn’t generally persistent.

[SuperMatt18]

I do wonder if some of it has to be the equipment changes.

Smith was vocal that he didn't think the changes were safe and that he was getting bruised by the shots.

Almost looks like he may have let it get to his head. He's not getting set positionally and letting the puck hit him in the body this year, feels like he's try to rely on his athleticism to react to the shot to try to get a blocker, glove, or pad on it - so places where he has more padding.

So I do wonder if a lot of it is mentally from that.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Maybe it’s just bad luck. But bad luck isn’t generally persistent.

Tell that to Bennett.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Tell that to Bennett.

Or Dube.

[TheScorpion]

Did Troy Brouwer ever score a sick one-knee one-timer?

Nahhhhh.

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

He's not getting set positionally and letting the puck hit him in the body this year, feels like he's try to rely on his athleticism to react to the shot to try to get a blocker, glove, or pad on it - so places where he has more padding.

He started the year playing hyper aggressive. Got caught in the season opener because of it, got a bit lucky against Nashville... but had varying degrees of success/failure.

I've noticed in the last few games, he's adjusted by playing very, very deep in the crease and not challenging shots too often. It's bizarre that he would feel like this is an appropriate adjustment and that a goalie coach would be ok with it.

He's a big guy and just needs to challenge shots at the top of his crease consistently. More difficult than it sounds, but I'm pretty blown away (in a negative sense) at what he's doing right now.

Smith is not done, he's still hyper athletic and basically all of his issues stem from him making very poor decisions in both strategy and in-game save-by-save decision making.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Smith seems like a guy who plays better with a chip on his shoulder. If I was the coach I’d sit him down, say “You’re not cutting it and we’ve lost our confidence in you”, let him seethe on the bench for 4 or 5 games, and he see how he handles it when he’s let out of his cage.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

Smith seems like a guy who plays better with a chip on his shoulder. If I was the coach I’d sit him down, say “You’re not cutting it and we’ve lost our confidence in you”, let him seethe on the bench for 4 or 5 games, and he see how he handles it when he’s let out of his cage.

Smith seems like a guy who plays better on the road than at home. Since I don't believe there is an upgrade in goal incoming this is where I would first go to address the problem:

Rittich should be getting more home starts beginning tomorrow.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by sketchyt

He started the year playing hyper aggressive. Got caught in the season opener because of it, got a bit lucky against Nashville... but had varying degrees of success/failure.

I've noticed in the last few games, he's adjusted by playing very, very deep in the crease and not challenging shots too often. It's bizarre that he would feel like this is an appropriate adjustment and that a goalie coach would be ok with it.

He's a big guy and just needs to challenge shots at the top of his crease consistently. More difficult than it sounds, but I'm pretty blown away (in a negative sense) at what he's doing right now.

Smith is not done, he's still hyper athletic and basically all of his issues stem from him making very poor decisions in both strategy and in-game save-by-save decision making.

I think you have this wrong.



Big goalies can play deeper in their creases, because they cover more net. Small goalies need to challenge more to cut off angles. He has always played deep, and he can do so because he's huge. Hypothetically this should allow him to make better saves on lateral plays while also saving square shots. If he plays aggressive, he's not really improving his percentages on square shots, and also putting himself at a disadvantage for lateral movement plays. I think the adjustment is the correct one, in playing less aggressively.

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by heep223

I think you have this wrong.



Big goalies can play deeper in their creases, because they cover more net. Small goalies need to challenge more to cut off angles. He has always played deep, and he can do so because he's huge. Hypothetically this should allow him to make better saves on lateral plays while also saving square shots. If he plays aggressive, he's not really improving his percentages on square shots, and also putting himself at a disadvantage for lateral movement plays. I think the adjustment is the correct one, in playing less aggressively.

I didn't say he should stay hyper-aggressive.

He's made an adjustment where he's nearly sitting on his goal line or swimming in blue in most situations... even on mid-long range shots. A prime example is on the first Colorado goal last night where there is no reason to not play at the top of the crease. By the time the goal is scored he's backed in further. Arguably, the same deal on the 4th goal (although it looks like he backed in because he was hedging bets on the pass... not a great look either).

An no, he has not always played deep. He's a goalie that lives on the top of his crease for mid/long range shots and uses his size in tight... as does every other large goalie with the rare exception of Lundqvist. That's when he plays deep and uses his size. Right now, he's playing deep on just about everything and is a trend I'm noticing in his last 3-4 starts.

There's other things about his game that has been sneaking in too that I've noticed... his hands are way back and not forward facing... his feet aren't set consistently. I believe these are side effects of his passive depth control.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

The person who should mostly be to blame for goaltending is the goalie himself. The goalie coach does not have a controller that he uses to make the goalies move.

Those trying to scapegoat Sigalet are just trying to shift blame. Players are ultimately responsible and accountable for their own performances. It’s not like there’s a new system that a goalie coach will teach a veteran goalie. You want someone to blame for Smith’s play? You need look no further than Smith and the defense.

It's on BT for putting the team in the situation as well. He's proven incapable at evaluating and/or acquiring goaltending talent and it will cost him his job, despite being great in other areas (signings, trades, recent drafts and so on) if Smith cannot figure it out soon or Rittich is not up to task of taking over.