[Trade] Elias Lindholm + Noah Hanifin to Flames for D. Hamilton, Micheal Ferland, & Adam Fox

[Strange Brew]

Treliving has been building around this core, trading picks for players and making expensive UFA signings for depth. I don’t give him a pass if that turns out to be a bad decision because the core is not good enough.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Treliving has been building around this core, trading picks for players and making expensive UFA signings for depth. I don’t give him a pass if that turns out to be a bad decision because the core is not good enough.

Thanks to this trade the amount of players drafted in the top 6 since the year Iggy was traded went from 3 to 5. Really the 2nd and 3rd used to acquire Elliott and Smith were worthwhile gambles. The 3 picks for Hamonic hurts the most but I think the trading away of picks is overstated. Can’t disagree with the ufa signings but when speaking about Neal specifically I loved the signing at the time and still feel we will get a couple years of value on that deal.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Thanks to this trade the amount of players drafted in the top 6 since the year Iggy was traded went from 3 to 5. Really the 2nd and 3rd used to acquire Elliott and Smith were worthwhile gambles. The 3 picks for Hamonic hurts the most but I think the trading away of picks is overstated. Can’t disagree with the ufa signings but when speaking about Neal specifically I loved the signing at the time and still feel we will get a couple years of value on that deal.

I didn’t mean to debate individual moves, just that I disagree with the notion that the GM gets a pass if the core that he “inherited” isn’t good enough around which to build a competitive team.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Well most were consensus in thinking his moves this summer were solid so there’s most of the job description.

If it’s shown to be Peters fault then for sure he can’t fail in another coach.

If it’s a core issue and the elements of the core in question are players that were here before he arrived then you may have a surprise.




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The core and the coach he inherited made it to the second round. Team started falling off after he really put his imprint on the team, getting rid of Hartley and moving from there. That 2015 team was the second greatest Flames team in terms of post season success since 89. But I am sorta used to folks making excuses for the “wizard”. Not everyone can sign Monahan for a higher annual cap hit than MacKinnon or Scheifele and still be a wizard, that in and of itself is wizardry. Not everyone can swing and miss repeatedly on a starting goalie and be a wizard. I bet Feaster or Button or a whole host of equally successful Flames GMs wish they had as much rope as BT appears to have.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

The core and the coach he inherited made it to the second round. Team started falling off after he really put his imprint on the team, getting rid of Hartley and moving from there. That 2015 team was the second greatest Flames team in terms of post season success since 89. But I am sorta used to folks making excuses for the “wizard”. Not everyone can sign Monahan for a higher annual cap hit than MacKinnon or Scheifele and still be a wizard, that in and of itself is wizardry. Not everyone can swing and miss repeatedly on a starting goalie and be a wizard. I bet Feaster or Button or a whole host of equally successful Flames GMs wish they had as much rope as BT appears to have.

Do you remember that year? It was the dictionary definition of unsustainable, just like the Avs the year before. A bad team that made the playoffs on the back of a huge amount of luck, and fell back to earth afterwards.

The Avs mixed things up afterwards too, and missed the playoffs for 3 straight years following. Who knows what our season has in store, but any suggestion that the 2015 team was anything but lucky is revisionist history.

[jammies]

Almost every team in the league hires a coach after doing extensive interviews, but since Calgary's doing it differently, and has had such a record of success over the years, it clearly must be a plan unworthy of skepticism and doubt.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by transplant99

BT has only hired 2 coaches....lots of GM's, at least in the past, have been given 3 or more.

Not saying that happens here, but it is far from unprecedented.

This is true, but I feel it really comes down to making the playoffs. Treliving can only survive another bad coaching hire if his work is otherwise solid. If the team doesn't even make the playoffs, again, it's hard to argue the roster he built is that great. A good roster should make the playoffs every now and then even if the coaching sucks.

A quick exit from the playoffs might be enough to earn Treliving the chance to hire another coach, but even then he needs to make the decision soon enough. I don't think Treliving can afford to give Peters as much leash as Gulutzan got. That would look like he doesn't learn.

(All that said: I think it's possible Peters works out and all will be fine. This is just speculation on what happens if he doesn't. )

[AltaGuy]

I still believe Vigneault was the best option, and still don't understand why a seemingly meticulous and patient GM has such tunnel vision about coaches and goalies: blinders that are going to get him canned.

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

God man, come on, you're better than this. Who is saying that?

You do the interviews because it's due diligence. You may be surprised. You may learn things you hadn't considered before. You don't know unless you do it.

It also needs to be noted that at the end of this exhaustive search that took a long long time, Glen Gulutzan was the man who was deemed fit for the job. Glen Gulutzan. Perhaps interviewing using a different set of criteria would've been prudent given how that turned out?

If you have done the due diligence during the previous search, what is the value add? The problem with this, like any other management position is that you will not be able to distinguish amongst great candidates in a 1 or 3 or 8 hour interview. Gulutzan was a great talker - I am sure he ran an amazing interview. That did not help much when times got difficult. Treliving has actual history with Peters, understands how he actually interacts with players and knows his job may be on the line with this hire. Delaying the hiring of Peters by 2-4 weeks so that you can do a bunch of throw away interviews in the hopes that someone will blow you away in an 8 hour interview (or a hike) to the point that you can trust them with your career is a waste of time.

Context is also important here - Peters had a short window to opt out of his contract. This is the guy Treliving wanted. As the 3rd coach in the last 6 years, all with completely different styles, I think at some point it stops being a coaching issue...

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

I still believe Vigneault was the best option, and still don't understand why a seemingly meticulous and patient GM has such tunnel vision about coaches and goalies: blinders that are going to get him canned.

I was fully on the Vigneault bandwagon...and yet several teams passed on him...again, perhaps there are some red flags there behind the scenes that fans know nothing about or perhaps he was not interested in coming to Calgary.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by jammies

Almost every team in the league hires a coach after doing extensive interviews, but since Calgary's doing it differently, and has had such a record of success over the years, it clearly must be a plan unworthy of skepticism and doubt.

Keenan, B. Sutter, Hartley, and Peters were hand picked but Treliving did interview a good handful of candidates before settling on Gulutzan (Travis Green was interviewed twice) so you can argue this organization is doomed to pick the wrong guy regardless of what they do.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Keenan, B. Sutter, Hartley, and Peters were hand picked but Treliving did interview a good handful of candidates before settling on Gulutzan (Travis Green was interviewed twice) so you can argue this organization is doomed to pick the wrong guy regardless of what they do.

Hartley was the right choice for that time, no question. Entertaining hockey, work ethic, even a playoff round win. He performed way above expectations.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Let me know when Carolina goes to china...goes west for two games, goes east for two games and then goes back west for two games and then back again.

Flames have probably put on more miles already than Carolina will before Christmas.

how about the oilers and devils? both with harder schedules, both went to europe. both doing better than the flames.

china is a lame excuse for the flames record.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

how about the oilers and devils? both with harder schedules, both went to europe. both doing better than the flames.

china is a lame excuse for the flames record.

The Devils have not had a harder schedule. Since coming back they’ve had one road game, and it was in Philly, and Bern was only 5 hours off NJ’s home time zone.

Oilers have not been on the road since they returned until this weekend.

I don’t think China is an excuse, but it might be a reason. In any event, comparisons should be actually made before simply suggesting NJ and Edm had harder schedules.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by jammies

Almost every team in the league hires a coach after doing extensive interviews, but since Calgary's doing it differently, and has had such a record of success over the years, it clearly must be a plan unworthy of skepticism and doubt.

That's not even close to what anyone is saying ... pretty sure you know it.

There are times when an executive comes available downtown and an oil company just brings him in. He has a relationship with existing management and a resume that the CEO is comfortable with.

There are times when a guy retires and you have no replacement person in mind so you do an extensive search.

If the former is the case, holding an extensive search isn't required.

This shouldn't be such a debate.

And to the skepticism and doubt? Many have said it's all on Treliving for making the hire, but so full on skepticism and doubt. But the process questioning is needless if he knew who he was going to hire.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

how about the oilers and devils? both with harder schedules, both went to europe. both doing better than the flames.

china is a lame excuse for the flames record.

First of all...we were talking about the Flames vs. Carolina schedule. But if you want to go there...2 games home, 2 east, 2 home, 2 east. Nobody else is doing that. Not to mention the Oilers have gotten Flames opponents on the 2nd half multiple times.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dino7c

First of all...we were talking about the Flames vs. Carolina schedule. But if you want to go there...2 games home, 2 east, 2 home, 2 east. Nobody else is doing that. Not to mention the Oilers have gotten Flames opponents on the 2nd half multiple times.

Yeah, and when you only play two home games at a time, half of your home games are subject to the "first game after a road trip" syndrome. That was sure the case against Pittsburgh.

[Strange Brew]

I just hope we are not here looking for excuses a few months from now.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Yeah, and when you only play two home games at a time, half of your home games are subject to the "first game after a road trip" syndrome. That was sure the case against Pittsburgh.

Does that syndrome affect good teams or only poor to mediocre ones?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Does that syndrome affect good teams or only poor to mediocre ones?

For all I know it's imaginary, like so many other similar theories. But it's pervasive enough that I've heard it from lots of different commentators about lots of different teams, good and bad.