10-28-2018, 10:30 AM
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#2901
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
I don't know ...
If I lost my car keys in the garage it would certainly look better if I turned the whole house upside down first before looking in the garage just to make sure everyone knows I'm working hard.
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Interesting point. Maybe that's what you do the first time you lose your keys.
But if you know this is the last time you'll get a chance to look for your keys because if you lose them again, your family's taking away your right to drive because you can't be trusted? Well at that point, you don't really care how it looks.
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10-28-2018, 10:31 AM
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#2902
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
Question the Peters hire all you want, but at this point, the hiring process is water under the bridge IMO. Give Treliving credit for being self aware enough to know his mind was made up and interviews were a waste of time. It's pretty clear he had no interest whatsoever in considering Darryl Sutter for the job so I doubt an interview changes his mind. Maybe he should have considered him which as I said, is a fair question.
I do think it's an interesting debate as to whether Gulutzan would still be the coach if Peters wasn't available. It feels a little like the Keenan hire in that regard.
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So hard to say.
I would say yes right away if it wasn't for that season ticket holder meeting this summer where he got into the philosophical differences between he and GG over bench leadership vs players being leaders on a young team. You take that and the way the team collapsed in diversity last year and I just don't know if he was back in any circumstances.
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10-28-2018, 10:34 AM
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#2903
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
Interesting point. Maybe that's what you do the first time you lose your keys.
But if you know this is the last time you'll get a chance to look for your keys because if you lose them again, your family's taking away your right to drive because you can't be trusted? Well at that point, you don't really care how it looks.
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Treliving knows he has to get the hire right and he went with the guy he wanted.
And the guy had a window where he would have ended up in Carolina again possibly.
With that timeline he has to go with what he thinks given the pressure you illustrated.
At the end of the day leaders have to have conviction and talent. If they have talent and no conviction they waffle. If they have conviction and no talent they'll get fired.
Anyone fronting a search for keys to look good isn't my GM ever.
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10-28-2018, 10:39 AM
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#2905
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Celebrated Square Root Day
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It doesn't make sense because a GM is not looking for his lost keys, he's searching for the keys that drive the best vehicle.
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10-28-2018, 10:39 AM
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#2906
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Franchise Player
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I think Treliving is a very smart guy with talent. But I don't necessarily understand what he is doing, maybe because he is smarter than I am.
I would like to know what he really thinks about this team and its players, and their likelihood of contending with the top players that they have.
Everything he has done thus far leads you to believe he things they have the star players needed to go for it.
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10-28-2018, 10:40 AM
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#2907
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Participant 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamesNation23
That is the problem though. Is it a case of him thinking hes smarter than everyone else so he dosent even bother interviewing others to see if there is a better option? What was there to lose in actually looking around? Conducting a search would be him doing his due diligence but instead he had his mind madeup and that was it. Obviously we will see if the decisions was a good idea
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I don’t understand this line of thinking.
Why can’t people grasp that the NHL isn’t like hiring for a manager for their Canadian Tire location? This is a high level group of individuals who either know each other or have a pretty good sense of each other, and literally get to watch the resumes of others play out in front of them every year. There isn’t some interview process where they go, “So Alain, tell me about your last three seasons? What style of hockey did you play? How were the results? Name one time where you had an interpersonal conflict with a co-worker and how you handled it.”
This weird obsession with interviews and “due diligence” as though each coach is some grand mystery with which there is so much to be revealed is kind of insane. If you’re hiring someone who has never been a head coach before, I get it, but when you’re selecting from guys that have been in the NHL over the past however long, this isn’t a mystery.
Honestly, can anyone tell me what Treliving gained to learn from interviewing Daryl or Alain that he wouldn’t already know? Anybody?
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10-28-2018, 10:42 AM
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#2908
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
I think Treliving is a very smart guy with talent. But I don't necessarily understand what he is doing, maybe because he is smarter than I am.
I would like to know what he really thinks about this team and its players, and their likelihood of contending with the top players that they have.
Everything he has done thus far leads you to believe he things they have the star players needed to go for it.
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Maybe Treliving, like most people, is very good at certain aspects of his job and not so hot at others.
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10-28-2018, 10:48 AM
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#2909
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Celebrated Square Root Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepsiFree
Honestly, can anyone tell me what Treliving gained to learn from interviewing Daryl or Alain that he wouldn’t already know? Anybody?
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A personalized interview where the GM discusses his desires for team direction and philosophy, then the coach gives his perspective.
The GM can then can feel out if the coach is as advertised, or if maybe he's changed since his last gig, or has a desire to try some new things. Coaches can and do grow and evolve just like players.
Maybe the coach really appreciates the direction and ideas of the GM during discussion and they start collaborating on ideas and the GM decides this coach is actually who he wants after a feeling out process and time in the same room.
I mean it feels silly even typing this stuff out. It's an interview at the highest level of hockey, of course there's value, of course there's potential to learn more than you know from just being around hockey and hearing things. C'mon Pepsi, you're smarter than this.
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10-28-2018, 10:49 AM
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#2910
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepsiFree
I don’t understand this line of thinking.
...
Honestly, can anyone tell me what Treliving gained to learn from interviewing Daryl or Alain that he wouldn’t already know? Anybody?
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Sure, he could learn how they planned to right the ship.
Lots of elements to the conversation as well.
How to get the most out of star players. How they manage to fight through the doldrums when they have those painful stretches.
“Hey Darryl, what was the key to winning the Stanley Cup? How do you think you could bring that perspective to make Calgary a winning team?”
Until Treliving has won a Cup, he doesn’t know firsthand what it takes to win a Cup.
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10-28-2018, 10:50 AM
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#2911
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Franchise Player
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If you know for a fact that the keys are in the garage somewhere, then the metaphor doesn't work. Treliving does not know for a fact that the type of hockey Gulutzan and Peters coach is a winning recipe. He *thinks* that, but the evidence for that is unclear at best, and between Peters' 4 years of missing the playoffs, and the Glen Gulutzan two-year tire fire, "unclear" would be quite generous.
If you're trying to make a list of the most probable places you could've lost your keys, maybe it would make sense. You can have a hunch that they might be in the garage, and perhaps you do a quick check there first based on your intuition, but you should also check in more common sense places too, where evidence shows you'd have the best chance at success finding them (under seat cushions, on top of your nightstand, whatever). THEN you can turn the garage upside down.
You don't just ASSUME the garage is the only place they can be if you're not absolutely certain. I don't want a GM who doesn't even consider the possibility that his ideas could be wrong, especially when there is ample evidence to suggest that they don't work.
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10-28-2018, 10:54 AM
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#2912
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Celebrated Square Root Day
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The analogy just flat out didn't work, with all due respect. It was basically "I lost my keys in the garage so I go to the garage to find my keys, not the rest of the house like an idiot".
So Bill Peters is the set of keys and Carolina was the garage, so he went to Carolina and found his Bill Peters.....who wasn't missing". None of it worked for the debate on hiring your guy vs extensive search.
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10-28-2018, 10:56 AM
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#2913
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Celebrated Square Root Day
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Having said all that, I actually have a lot of faith in Bill Peters and like what I've seen so far. This after being a heavy detractor of the signing this summer.
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10-28-2018, 10:58 AM
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#2914
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Guys Treliving had an exhaustive search when he hired Gulutzan. It took a long long time.
The guy he wanted came available, he fired Gultuzan and hired him in a short window. To think he had to go out and interview other people extensively in this short window to make sure fans were ok with the final choice is silly.
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10-28-2018, 11:02 AM
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#2915
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
Guys Treliving had an exhaustive search when he hired Gulutzan. It took a long long time.
The guy he wanted came available, he fired Gultuzan and hired him in a short window. To think he had to go out and interview other people extensively in this short window to make sure fans were ok with the final choice is silly.
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God man, come on, you're better than this. Who is saying that?
You do the interviews because it's due diligence. You may be surprised. You may learn things you hadn't considered before. You don't know unless you do it.
It also needs to be noted that at the end of this exhaustive search that took a long long time, Glen Gulutzan was the man who was deemed fit for the job. Glen Gulutzan. Perhaps interviewing using a different set of criteria would've been prudent given how that turned out?
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10-28-2018, 11:02 AM
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#2916
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Celebrated Square Root Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
Guys Treliving had an exhaustive search when he hired Gulutzan. It took a long long time.
The guy he wanted came available, he fired Gultuzan and hired him in a short window. To think he had to go out and interview other people extensively in this short window to make sure fans were ok with the final choice is silly.
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This is fair, and I should clarify my posts were only directed at the analogy itself and then a response to what I thought was a silly comment from Pepsi about interviews not mattering because you're not going to learn anything more than you already know.
A few posts later and it looks like I'm arguing against the hire. I didn't like it in the fast paced hoopla when it went down as I was frazzled from another crappy season like most fans. I didn't initially see that he had extensive knowledge of Peters AND a small window to grab him.
With time for reflection and seeing the way he operates, I do like the hire now and feel with a couple more weeks of the new coach struggle phase we'll start seeing a top 12ish team in the league.
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10-28-2018, 11:05 AM
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#2917
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Participant 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache
Sure, he could learn how they planned to right the ship.
Lots of elements to the conversation as well.
How to get the most out of star players. How they manage to fight through the doldrums when they have those painful stretches.
“Hey Darryl, what was the key to winning the Stanley Cup? How do you think you could bring that perspective to make Calgary a winning team?”
Until Treliving has won a Cup, he doesn’t know firsthand what it takes to win a Cup.
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You guys honestly don’t think this sort of stuff is a secret? That these guys don’t have these conversations? Don’t go to clinics with each other and run in similar circles and that any of this is a closely guarded secret?
Again, it’s not an interview where these things are a surprise. How many people here know how Daryl works the media after a big win and after a big loss? How many here know how Daryl runs his team, how he sets them up for success?
If you’ve been paying attention, I’m betting a lot, and that’s from the perspective of a fan. Now imagine being in a league for 10 years where he’s one of the 30 guys doing a job. You don’t think you’d get an even better perspective?
Like, I get maybe there will be some high level platitude you might learn, but the grits and gravy is laid bare, these aren’t mystery boxes.
Again, I get it if we’re talking about a coach who is coming in from college or junior or the AHL, sure, but history is littered with coaches coming in without a big interview process, because most GMs know what they’re building, have an idea of what they need to support that, and go out and get it. If that don’t think the 95% of what they know about a guy is a fit, they’re not going to sit down to clear up the 5%.
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10-28-2018, 11:05 AM
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#2918
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdonkey
God man, come on, you're better than this. Who is saying that?
You do the interviews because it's due diligence. You may be surprised. You may learn things you hadn't considered before. You don't know unless you do it.
It also needs to be noted that at the end of this exhaustive search that took a long long time, Glen Gulutzan was the man who was deemed fit for the job. Glen Gulutzan. Perhaps interviewing using a different set of criteria would've been prudent given how that turned out?
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The window was tight, he didn't have the time space with Peters making a choice in a window.
But this is a process driven GM in almost every single decision he's ever made.
He wanted Peters so he moved within the window and got it done.
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10-28-2018, 11:05 AM
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#2919
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdonkey
God man, come on, you're better than this. Who is saying that?
You do the interviews because it's due diligence. You may be surprised. You may learn things you hadn't considered before. You don't know unless you do it.
It also needs to be noted that at the end of this exhaustive search that took a long long time, Glen Gulutzan was the man who was deemed fit for the job. Glen Gulutzan. Perhaps interviewing using a different set of criteria would've been prudent given how that turned out?
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How do you know they didn’t use different criteria
The truth is you know next to nothing about what process they followed or decision criteria
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10-28-2018, 11:06 AM
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#2920
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Grew up in Calgary now living in USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache
Sure, he could learn how they planned to right the ship.
Lots of elements to the conversation as well.
How to get the most out of star players. How they manage to fight through the doldrums when they have those painful stretches.
“Hey Darryl, what was the key to winning the Stanley Cup? How do you think you could bring that perspective to make Calgary a winning team?”
Until Treliving has won a Cup, he doesn’t know firsthand what it takes to win a Cup.
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This^ When GG was coaching it often felt as if they were experimenting or trying the same thing over and over when it wasn't working. Better to just go out and get a guy who has been there and knows what it takes to get the players there. Brad Treliving has idea's, but that still feels like experimenting with those idea's, for lack of a better word. There is a reason some coaches teams get to the dance every season, while we seem to be struggling with consistency in different areas. You need a coach in place for an extended period of time which makes this a concern if Peter lacks the experience to get them there. I feel positive Peter's can do it he has enough good players, but will he put it all together!?
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