[Trade] Elias Lindholm + Noah Hanifin to Flames for D. Hamilton, Micheal Ferland, & Adam Fox

[djsFlames]

Lindholm: 8GP 5G 3A 8PTS
Ferland: 8GP 5G 3A 8PTS

Who sustains their start?

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Lindholm: 8GP 5G 3A 8PTS
Ferland: 8GP 5G 3A 8PTS

Who sustains their start?

Both will fall back but I am confident that Lindholm will finish the year with more points. Ferland, as we all know here, has a penchant for disappearing for a long stretches and scoring in huge bunches. I’m thinking Lindholm can be more of a consistent player.

[djsFlames]

Or I should say who sustains it the longest before the inevitable drop off.

I do think Lindholm knocks on the door of 60 points but doesn't eclipse it. Ferland I think ends up with roughly 10-15 points less.

Crazy to see that Hamilton/Hanifin so far is pretty much a wash. Many were unhappy at the expectation of drop off.

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Or I should say who sustains it the longest before the inevitable drop off.

I do think Lindholm knocks on the door of 60 points but doesn't eclipse it. Ferland I think ends up with roughly 10-15 points less.

Crazy to see that Hamilton/Hanifin so far is pretty much a wash. Many were unhappy at the expectation of drop off.

Now that I do not agree with. If anything Hanifin has been a disappointment so far, but it’s very early and he needs time to adjust, I am personally a long ways off from criticizing him yet. But he has a long long ways to go to be a ‘wash’ with Dougie Hamilton, who is a legit upper level d man in this league. It is criminal how Dougie gets treated on this board. I only wonder if the locker room issues were bigger than I thought.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

Both will fall back but I am confident that Lindholm will finish the year with more points. Ferland, as we all know here, has a penchant for disappearing for a long stretches and scoring in huge bunches. I’m thinking Lindholm can be more of a consistent player.

I agree Lindholm will most likely finish with more points but playing for a big UFA contract is a huge motivator for Ferland. Could easily be Ferland's best season.

[CaptainCrunch]

The question is going to be if Ferland has a very good season, is he a guy that you want to pay between 5 and 6 million bucks a year on a long term deal?

[CroFlames]

One thing I miss is Hamilton's elite ability to get pucks on net. I still can't believe our little he was utilized by GG on the PP since clearly offence was his biggest strength.



Hanifin brings more stability on defense which is just as important. Last game notwithstanding, the Flames' defense looks more cohesive. The upgrade in forwards is taking care of loss of offense from Dougie. This is a great hockey trade for the Flames.



Furthermore, as others have pointed out, it's great asset management as well with UFA vs RFA years.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The question is going to be if Ferland has a very good season, is he a guy that you want to pay between 5 and 6 million bucks a year on a long term deal?

It's going to be very interesting. How many players entering UFA have improved every single year the way he has (theoretically if he continues on his current pace)?

[sun]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

Both will fall back but I am confident that Lindholm will finish the year with more points. Ferland, as we all know here, has a penchant for disappearing for a long stretches and scoring in huge bunches. I’m thinking Lindholm can be more of a consistent player.

Didn't Lindholm fail to score in the last 25+ games of the season last year? Can't dig up the stat right now, but both players need to work on their consistency.

Lindholm does a lot of little things right though, so I reckon he's more useful than Ferland was when he goes cold.

[edn88]

What if the trade itself was the catalyst for the increase in play for some of the players involved. What if Ferland staying here would have seen him drop to the third line with Neal being added to first line? What if Lindholm got a wake up call by being traded and sees the chanced to redeem himself?

I think people look at trades and see how the players is doing in their new situation and assume it would have been that way in the old place, but I think environment and even the act of being traded can have an influence.

[jonkaupp]

One thing I really don’t get is people saying our defence looks more cohesive, or more ‘solid’ with Hanifin in place of Hamilton. We are among the league leaders in giving up high danger chances. Brodie is going back to being the train wreck he has been for the last two seasons. There has been an undeniable drop off without Hamilton on the back end defensively, particularly paired with Giordano to form one of the absolute best pairs in the league. The narrative that Hamilton is bad defensively is the most bogus crap on CP, purely made to justify the failures of other players and the team. Hamilton wasn’t Robyn Regehr but he was responsible defensively and his numbers showed that. He took bad penalties from time to time. That was probably his biggest weakness.

That said, when I consider the potential of the pieces acquired, along with the RFA control, then I am fine with the trade. But I don’t see the point in making up bogus narratives out of thin air to justify it.

[Ullr]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

Both will fall back but I am confident that Lindholm will finish the year with more points. Ferland, as we all know here, has a penchant for disappearing for a long stretches and scoring in huge bunches. I’m thinking Lindholm can be more of a consistent player.

You're correct on this one. Lindholm went from February 9th until April 7th (last game of the season) before getting a single tally. A total of 27 games straight without scoring.

EDIT: Meant to quote Sun ^

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by Ullr

You're correct on this one. Lindholm went from February 9th until April 7th (last game of the season) before getting a single tally. A total of 27 games straight without scoring.

EDIT: Meant to quote Sun ^

Ya I admittedly knew very little about Lindholm and was more just basing off of how I’ve seen his game here so far but ya, that is definitely a little worrisome.

[Locke]

Yeah, if you discount contract status then I discount your article.

We got two good young players locked up on great deals for 6 years.

The Hurricanes got the best player in the trade in Hamilton, and Ferland is no slouch although his consistency is historically inconsistent.

Maybe that'll change with top-line minutes, who knows.

I still think this deal was a slam-dunk for both teams unless Carolina cant retain them.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Ullr

You're correct on this one. Lindholm went from February 9th until April 7th (last game of the season) before getting a single tally. A total of 27 games straight without scoring.

EDIT: Meant to quote Sun ^

There area lot of reasons to like the trade for the Flames, but the idea we traded away an inconsistent player in Ferland to someone who is more consistent in Lindholm is certainly not rooted in fact. Ferland's production came with quite a bit less ice time as well.

One of the big plusses with Lindholm vs. Ferland is the expectation we received the more complete player who would help the top line not spend as much time in their own zone 5 on 5. That still hasn't panned out, early in the season. Instead we have received some unxexpected scoring production.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

There area lot of reasons to like the trade for the Flames, but the idea we traded away an inconsistent player in Ferland to someone who is more consistent in Lindholm is certainly not rooted in fact. Ferland's production came with quite a bit less ice time as well.

One of the big plusses with Lindholm vs. Ferland is the expectation we received the more complete player who would help the top line not spend as much time in their own zone 5 on 5. That still hasn't panned out, early in the season. Instead we have received some unxexpected scoring production.

I wonder about posts like this that say something is not based in fact.

Here are some facts:
Oct 4-21 - 7 games 1 G 0 A
Jan 4-11 - 4 games 4 G 4 A, 8 pts, + 6
Feb 11- Mar 5 - 8 games, 0 points, -8
Feb 11- end of year - 23 games, 1 G 6 A

That’s not inconsistent?

Seems to be a model for inconsistency.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

There area lot of reasons to like the trade for the Flames, but the idea we traded away an inconsistent player in Ferland to someone who is more consistent in Lindholm is certainly not rooted in fact. Ferland's production came with quite a bit less ice time as well.

One of the big plusses with Lindholm vs. Ferland is the expectation we received the more complete player who would help the top line not spend as much time in their own zone 5 on 5. That still hasn't panned out, early in the season. Instead we have received some unxexpected scoring production.

Lindholm had been a consistent in the .5ppg for most of his career where Ferland just broke 40pts for the first time last year. Lindholm has been a beast offensively and in the faceoff dot. I am not sure people thought we were getting a consistent player in Lindholm. I thought we were acquiring a player that had been good not great so far in his career with potential to “pop” (Treliving’s words). A guy that was a coveted right shot and versatile so he could play Centre or wing

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I wonder about posts like this that say something is not based in fact.

Here are some facts:
Oct 4-21 - 7 games 1 G 0 A
Jan 4-11 - 4 games 4 G 4 A, 8 pts, + 6
Feb 11- Mar 5 - 8 games, 0 points, -8
Feb 11- end of year - 23 games, 1 G 6 A

That’s not inconsistent?

Seems to be a model for inconsistency.

What? Who’s stats are these?

The post you quoted clearly states the opinion that we didn’t necessarily trade an inconsistent player for a more consistent player.

What are you getting at? Ferland isn’t consistent? Because... that opinion has been consistent.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Locke

Yeah, if you discount contract status then I discount your article.

We got two good young players locked up on great deals for 6 years.

Then there's the age of the players.

Hamilton 25
Ferland 26

Hanifin 21
Lindholm 23

Given their ages and draft pedigree, it's safe to say Hanifin and Lindholm are a lot more likely to improve as players while under contract in Calgary.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Lindholm had been a consistent in the .5ppg for most of his career where Ferland just broke 40pts for the first time last year. Lindholm has been a beast offensively and in the faceoff dot. I am not sure people thought we were getting a consistent player in Lindholm. I thought we were acquiring a player that had been good not great so far in his career with potential to “pop” (Treliving’s words). A guy that was a coveted right shot and versatile so he could play Centre or wing

I'm in no way arguing Ferland has been a consistent game to game player, but the one thing he had done is improve his scoring production every single year he has been in the NHL.