Judge rids courthouse of Christmas tree so as not to offend Non-Christians

[HOZ]

Non-Christians get offended that the judge would think like that!!!



It's so stupid. I'm at a loss for words," said Muslim Canadian Congress founder Tarek Fatah. "The judge should take a trip to the rest of the world. Christmas is celebrated by Muslims in many countries -- they should ban political correctness, not Christmas trees.

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Hindus would be highly upset if another group infringed on our right to put up Hindu symbols in public," said Hindu Conference of Canada spokesman Ron Banerjee. "I think it's important that political correctness not be taken too far so that we're being crazy about it."

Got to love it when a PC'er gets their comeuppance!!!

[flames_fan13]

People are way to sensitive about this. I'm a muslim myself and i don't see anything wrong with people putting up christmas decorations anywhere. It's just a decoration, it's something that looks good and people spend time decorating it for people to enjoy. And not to force people into their religion.

[CarlW]

What a dumb judge, how does a Christmas tree offend anybody unless the decorations on it were somehow offensive.

I'm not of any sort of abrahamic religion, neither is my immediate family, or 99% of my extended family, but we sometimes put up a christmas tree (depends if we're lazy or not ). Of course we don't see it as a religious thing, more of it's the custom of the people in this country, so when in Canada do as the Canadians do.

P.S.: I really dislike Political Correctness

[Devils'Advocate]

I like what the judge did. She felt that, as a COURTROOM, there should be absolutely no perception of bias. Everyone that enters that courtroom should feel that there is complete and utter neutrality in all things. If there is *ANY* place that should not have anything that could be construed as religious it would be a courtroom. We've removed swearing on the Bible to tell the truth for the same reason.

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This is the umpteenth time this has come up this year. Everyone gets their panties in a knot over the "War on Christmas". I've said in every instance that it should be ALL or NOTHING. Particularly in the public domain. Queens Park (Ontario) has it correct: "Queen's Park, where there are Christmas trees aplenty this time of year, also celebrates Jewish, Muslim, Hindu and other traditions.". I also think the judge got it right. All or Nothing. Especially when we are dealing with taxpayer money.

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Anyone else find humour in HOZ posting an article promoting the "wonderful privilege of building a pluralistic, multicultural society"?

[Table 5]

Cohen is a jewish name, is it not? Perhaps it was the judge herself who felt slighted, and not visitors to the court house....

[transplant99]

She felt that, as a COURTROOM, there should be absolutely no perception of bias.

Exactly what "bias" exists in the form of a tree in a room in a building?

Somehow the judge and/or jury is going to find out if a defendant is Christian or not, and then prosecute them more vehemently (or not) or something??

Good grief what a freaking joke.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Somehow the judge and/or jury is going to find out if a defendant is Christian or not, and then prosecute them more vehemently (or not) or something??

You may consider it a joke. Others may not. The justice system is supposed to give the air of complete neutrality in all things except the law. And that includes complete religious neutrality.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

You may consider it a joke. Others may not. The justice system is supposed to give the air of complete neutrality in all things except the law. And that includes complete religious neutrality.

And a decorated tree somehow implies something less than neutrality??

Give me a break. Its an absurd statement.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

I like what the judge did. She felt that, as a COURTROOM, there should be absolutely no perception of bias. Everyone that enters that courtroom should feel that there is complete and utter neutrality in all things. If there is *ANY* place that should not have anything that could be construed as religious it would be a courtroom. We've removed swearing on the Bible to tell the truth for the same reason.

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This is the umpteenth time this has come up this year. Everyone gets their panties in a knot over the "War on Christmas". I've said in every instance that it should be ALL or NOTHING. Particularly in the public domain. Queens Park (Ontario) has it correct: "Queen's Park, where there are Christmas trees aplenty this time of year, also celebrates Jewish, Muslim, Hindu and other traditions.". I also think the judge got it right. All or Nothing. Especially when we are dealing with taxpayer money.

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Anyone else find humour in HOZ posting an article promoting the "wonderful privilege of building a pluralistic, multicultural society"?

Ohhhh....so a Christmas Tree is wrong in a court house but swearing an oath isn't?

It isn't ALL or nothing. We are not going to spend the same amount of time and money on religous festivals such as scientology as we would with Christianity. Can you not understand that?

[CaptainCrunch]

This debate is really getting silly, since the Christmas tree as a symbol has little to nothing to do with the Christian celebration of Christmas. Its not a symbol of the church, its not a religeous icon.

If anything its a Pagan symbol symbolizing life, and was adopted by the German's in the 1500's to celebrate the winter solstice.

This argument that if you put up a christmas tree you have to put up symbols to celbrate the jewish holiday, or the Muslim faith etc is misdirected because then you would have to put up the nativity scene to celebrate the Christian meaning of christmas.

To me, it sounds like that Rabbi in the airport, and the judge have done very little research and are trying to take advantage of the ingrained paranoia that people have about political correctness all day.

The Christmas tree celebrates the holiday in a non religeous way as a holiday where families get together and celebrate thier life together, get drunk and exchange gifts while watching football.

If anyone should be ****ed off its the Pagan's because we've hijacked thier symbol.

but I have a solution, in every public square we should have a tree, the jewish menorah, some Islam symbol of the holiday (sorry can't remember one), a Mayan sacrifice altar, a 1:10 size recreation of stonehedge, and the nativity scene.

This is a stupid argument based on people not understanding the difference between religeous symbols and non religous symbols.

[Devils'Advocate]

That's ridiculous. I can't go walking around wearing swastikas and say it is a symbol of my reverance to Hindu culture. The symbol was adopted by another group for which it became synonymous.

There is a reason it is called a "Christmas Tree". If someone has a Christmas tree it's far more likely that the person is Christian than Jewish.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

That's ridiculous. I can't go walking around wearing swastikas and say it is a symbol of my reverance to Hindu culture. The symbol was adopted by another group for which it became synonymous.

There is a reason it is called a "Christmas Tree". If someone has a Christmas tree it's far more likely that the person is Christian than Jewish.

Why is it ridiculous, I know a lot of non-christians that put up a christmas tree. And the reason why the swastika is reviled like it is, is not the religeous symbiology but the fact that it was adopted as the symbol of one of the most brutal and murderous regimes in the history of the planet, big difference.

The Catholic church has not adopted the tree as a symbol of its religion. Its not in the bible, its not part of the christmas rights and ceremonies. They don't kneel in defference too it.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by transplant99

And a decorated tree somehow implies something less than neutrality??

Give me a break. Its an absurd statement.

You have to admit that a Christmas tree isn't quite as innocuous as, say, a tetherball pole in the lobby. We don't all see it as a religious thing, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have some religious signifigance. It is called a Christmas tree after all, and we do put it up at Christmas as part of Christmas celebrations and Christmas is a Christian holiday.

I find it a little far-fetched that anyone would go into that courthouse and think "oh geez, I'm not a Christian, this place isn't going to be fair", but it is a Christian symbol in the lobby.

I do find it interesting that now, at least 10 years after the PC Stormtroopers started the War on Christmas, that people still get so upset about this. This is the second story this year about a public building in Canada taking down a Christmas tree. To me that says there must be hundreds, if not thousands, of public buildings in the country that have a Christmas tree up and nobody cares, but as soon as we hear one story of one tree coming down it's "goddamn political correctness is taking over this country".

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

You have to admit that a Christmas tree isn't quite as innocuous as, say, a tetherball pole in the lobby.

that tetherball pole could be offensive to people who don't participate in festivus. see, look hard enough and you can find offense in anything... even a pole or a pine tree.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

You may consider it a joke. Others may not. The justice system is supposed to give the air of complete neutrality in all things except the law. And that includes complete religious neutrality.

WTF does a Christmas tree have to do with Christianity?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

If someone has a Christmas tree it's far more likely that the person is Christian than Jewish.

BS.

I know many, many people...who put up Christmas trees, and aren't religious by any means.

The Christmas tree has 'nothing' to do with the religious side of Christmas. Hell, the hardline religious folks don't even believe in Christmas trees, because, like CC said, it is a pagan symbol.

Adopted and used by the secular world.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Azure

WTF does a Christmas tree have to do with Christianity?

Why is it called a Christmas tree?

Maybe this year I'll put mine up in July. Since it has nothing to do with Christmas and all and it's so pretty, I think I'll give it a little summer lovin'.

Does that make sense? Or does it make more sense to put up a Christmas tree at Christmas? And what is Christmas again? At least traditionally? It's a celebration of the birth of ____________?

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Why is it called a Christmas tree?

Maybe this year I'll put mine up in July. Since it has nothing to do with Christmas and all and it's so pretty, I think I'll give it a little summer lovin'.

Does that make sense? Or does it make more sense to put up a Christmas tree at Christmas? And what is Christmas again? At least traditionally? It's a celebration of the birth of ____________?

santa

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Azure

BS.

You claim my statement is bull****. So you believe that if someone has a Christmas tree, then it is more likely that they are Jewish than Christian. I live next to a Christmas tree lot. I have $1,000 that if I go over to the lot and asked the people buying the trees what their religion is more will say Christian than Jewish. Since you are so adamant that my statement is bull****, I take it you will see the $1,000 bet as easy money. Are we on?

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I can't believe I am arguing with people that "CHRISTMAS TREES" which are a central tradition to CHRISTMAS, THE CELEBRATION OF THE BIRTH OF JESUS CHRIST, cannot be taken as a religious symbol. It has CHRIST right in the name. I really have to shake my head sometimes. True, some people buy "holiday trees" and are not Christian, but to say that Christmas trees cannot be construed as relating to a religious holiday is just incredible.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

You claim my statement is bull****. So you believe that if someone has a Christmas tree, then it is more likely that they are Jewish than Christian. I live next to a Christmas tree lot. I have $1,000 that if I go over to the lot and asked the people buying the trees what their religion is more will say Christian than Jewish. Since you are so adamant that my statement is bull****, I take it you will see the $1,000 bet as easy money. Are we on?

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I can't believe I am arguing with people that "CHRISTMAS TREES" which are a central tradition to CHRISTMAS, THE CELEBRATION OF THE BIRTH OF JESUS CHRIST, cannot be taken as a religious symbol. It has CHRIST right in the name. I really have to shake my head sometimes.

actually, they most likely don't actively practice any religion. and of COURSE someone with a christmas tree is more likely to be christian than jewish. anyone in canada is more likely to be christian than jewish. the stats were posted in the last christmas tree thread... what were they... for people who are religious.... ~75% christian (of some denomination) and ~5% jewish. not exactly sure of the numbers, go look them up if you want but those are in the ballpark

this is equivallent to saying, poll everyone in the country who has a christmas tree - i bet there's more whites than blacks that have trees. therefore, christmas is clearly a 'whites only' holiday and is racist. all christmas trees should be banned as to not offend blacks.