Hamonic out week to week with Facial Fracture - update - practicing with the team

[Split98]

I think the only time I appreciate fighting in hockey is when it's referenced in comedy as this 'crazy Canadian sport'. It's been a fun ride, but I don't think I've truly appreciated a fight in a very long time.

There's 2 answers here which are pretty obvious, and make for a much more fun game.

1. You're obviously out of the game after that hit. Watch replays to determine penalties FFS. I don't get the insistence of relying on what you can see to call penalties. When 'tradition' makes for a worse game, improve the product. You review that play and realize that a penalty needs to be answered, whether intentional or not. If you want players to play with aggressive restraint, they need to be held responsible - which also leads to...

2. Hit, don't fight. When I say hit, I'm not talking about slew-footing, hits to the head and charging. I'm talking about finishing your damn check. If Hamonic can setup up and have his damn face broken, surely the rest of the roster can make sure that every hit they lay is being felt. We played them soft the rest of the game, and shrunk back and let them unload. The Vancouver Canucks.

You want to take a run at one of our players? Fine, we'll make sure that you fear going the boards with us the whole game. Every single player should feel a foot taller with leadership that calls for a score to be settled. That game should have been 5-1 with a bench of quivering Canucks waiting for the buzzer.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by Bingo

it was a poorly timed hit followed by an apology ... does their really need to be retribution? Dube is fine.

I think at the time there definitely needed to be.

It didn't look like a targeted attack to me, but Dube was on the bench clearly feeling the effects at that time. For everyone in that locker room, they know what kind of a bum deal this is for Dube. I'd want that to be answered for on my bench - I know I'd want him to answer for it myself.

An apology is great sportsmanship of course, but the result earned some retribution still nonetheless.

It could have been a hard period for the Canucks, with the score settled and the lines drawn going into the 2nd. How much fun would that have been?!

[Cali Panthers Fan]

If there's one positive to take out of this, it's that Dube knows that he's respected by his teammates. Nobody is going to take on Gudbranson if the player getting hit is some scrub AHLer. Dube even said he owes Hamonic for the fight, and I suspect he'll play his guts out for the team going forward.

The rest of this kinda sucks.

[Geeoff]

Prediction: Dube gets in a fight this year

[pepper24]

It unfortunate that Hamonic has a broken jaw but overall good that he answered the bell to protect his teammate. Someone had to IMO.

Issue with Flames is I count 5 guys that can drop the mitts if needed who can play every game and regular minutes. Team toughness if you will. Not including guys like Prout and Peluso that'll play limited minutes and could hurt us on the ice.

Giordano, Hamonic, Tkachuk, Bennett, Hathaway. You don't want Giordano or Tkachuk fighting unless necessary. Probably Hamonic as well in most cases as we just saw. Hathaway borderline player. Bennett now on 4th line. None though can take on a guy like Gudbranson.

The Flames since Engelland's departure are missing a tough guy that can play regular minutes. Doesn't have to fight but there if necessary. Doesn't hurt you on the ice either. Played bottom pairing but could step in to top 4 when needed. We've lacked on team toughness since his departure.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by cannon7

So you're going to just mock the overreactions? Typical.

Funny thing is, people are acting like Hamonic can't fight. Try a search on the YouTubes. Thing is, when you're throwing fists at faces, jaws are gonna get broke from time to time. At least it wasn't a Todd Fedoruk situation.

What exactly is typical?

I have a pronounced mocking history?

[Reign of Fire]

I suggest we bring Big Ern out of retirement for Saturday's game.

[heep223]

Specualtion .... gives me facial tics

I can’t wait for this thread to die.

[Kybb79]

Gudbranson won that fight bigtime. Hamonic looked to be skating better than last season.

[GioforPM]

Hamonic was always going to get into that fight, unless Gudbransen (who I've never heard was dirty) was ejected, and even if he was, it would have happened next game. Hamonic got pretty unlucky - lots of guys fight tougher opponents and don\'t get injured like that, sometimes they do surprisingly well (Henrique v. Iginla).

All I can say is that Hamonic is a stud to play as well as he did for the rest of the game with whatever is broken in his face.

[TheScorpion]

Bleh, great.

[soulchoice]

When hits like that happen, two things should always be done. Score on the PP and also make the person answer the bell(exactly what hammer did). He is a solid teamate and will always do that. It's just too bad he was the only one on the roster that night who even stood a chance, albeit a small one to face Gudbrandson(who himself is not an enforcer), but tough as hell.

The reality is fights are here and for the foreseeable future isn't going away. Having played the game on a decent level, it certainly does make a difference when a teammate steps up after a hit similar to the Dube hit. For the most part it lifts the team and brings guys closer, that is a fact.

It's only in an instance like Wednesdays game where it didnt create a positive momentum swing for the Flames cause Harmonic bit off more than he could chew. Even if it was a close fight, that would have helped the Flames and the flames bench.

I applaud Harmonic for the warrior he is. From now on any divisional games, the flames should always dress a player who can take a shift and also handle the Lucic and grubrandsons, cause once he is healed, I don't want to see him feel he needs to take the same task again against the big boys. Knowing how Harmonic is, he still will so dress someone to take the duty from him.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Kybb79

Gudbranson won that fight bigtime. Hamonic looked to be skating better than last season.

Yeah, I liked what I saw from Hamonic in the first period, and I think a factor in the Flames loss was his lost ice time and how he fared in the game after the fight.

[brew]

Originally Posted by Reign of Fire

I suggest we bring Big Ern out of retirement for Saturday's game.

https://youtu.be/vIcdbxzrtbI

I'm down.. on the topic of code, note Ern and Sestito finish what they were doing, no linesmen pulling them apart, and tap each other for a good scrap.

Also note that the building went wild, didn't see many disapproving there, and I know when I was watching at home, when I saw the starting 5, I got excited knowing what was coming, and I know I wasn't the only one

+1 here for fighting in the game and the place of a tough guy that can still play minutes

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by 868904

It was stupid of Peters to not have been prepared and to put Hamonic in that position. Hamonic had no choice, in his mind, given what happened last year, given the situation with a rookie, he had to do what he did.

The fault lies here with Peters for putting Hamonic in that position. Peters went into a gun fight with a knife and now he’s lost one of his top defenceman and all you haters of toughness now get Prout for an extended period instead of just two games to start the season.

What are you talking about? What position? He put Hamonic out for his shift...Hamonic put himself in that position. What should Peters have done, bench all the guys who "might" want to stick up for Dube?

[868904]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I am curious to know what you think Peters should have done differently to either diffuse or address the situation.


Two things:

1. I understand that fighting and "the code" in hockey is something that the vast majority of players believe in, and that these will continue to be part of the game so long as they do. Were it up to me I would get it out of the game now, but we are clearly a long way away from that still. However, I think with each passing generation the appetite for fighting in hockey becomes smaller and support among players much less enthusiastic. The day IS coming when fighting will be banned from the NHL, and I think we will see it in our lifetime. It is a safety concern, and I see no good reason to continue to delay the inevitable.

2. Scoring on the powerplay would not have been a measured response? Come on. Of course it would have. Had the Flames scored on their first powerplay, they would have had a lead in the first period. The Canucks would have continued to be on their heels, and the entire complexion of that game almost certainly looks completely different. Scoring on the powerplay likely would have led to a different outcome, and the point of the game is to win. Had the Flames scored on their first pwoerplay, I would bet they would have scored on another, and would probably have won the game.

Peters should have had Prout in for one of Stone or Valimaki. He should have recognized that the Canucks had someone on their team like Gudbranson and been prepared. I'm not saying he should have dressed Prout and told him to fight Gudbranson off the opening faceoff, but Prout should have been in the line up in case a situation like the Dube hit occured.

I'm not even that upset with the hit. It's a hockey play. The problem is the culture, Hamonic had no choice but to fight Gudbranson. The Flames had no choice. If the hit was on Tkachuk, it doesn't warrant a response. The hit was on a 20 year old rookie in his first game, first shift. The Flames had to respond. If fighting was out of the game, fine, no fight response is needed, but when fighting is in the game and that happens, the players, the leadership know, that something had to be done.

LIke I said, even if the Flames scored on the powerplay, I guarantee you Hamonic still goes after Gudbranson, because that is the culture.

I'm not arguing whether fighting should be gone or not, all i'm saying is Peters put Hamonic in that position, by not dressing a player capable of handling that situation. The Flames were going to respond with a fight regardless of what happened on the powerplay. I suppose we should be happy that it was Hamonic and not Giordano or Tkachuck.

I don't think the Flames would have suffered by downgrading slightly from Stone or Valimaki to Prout. It is a 6th defencemen spot, Prout would have only played 10 minutes, and you would have had the opportunity to get more minutes for Brodie and Hamonic. The downgrade on the 6th defensemen for two games would have been offset by the rest of the players feeling a greater sense of security and comfort knowing that they had someone like Prout backing them up.

I don't want to see Prout in every game either, but you have to adjust to your opponent, and i'm not talking about changing your whole system to suit an opponent, it's just a minor roster move to make sure that your players are protected. There are only a handful of teams that still carry a threat that requires a Prout in the lineup, it was dumb to not have Prout in there against Vancouver. What's the point of having him on the roster, if you won't use him when he's needed?

[868904]

Originally Posted by BigFlameDog

What are you talking about? What position? He put Hamonic out for his shift...Hamonic put himself in that position. What should Peters have done, bench all the guys who "might" want to stick up for Dube?

You don't understand the culture of the locker room and the team. Someone on the Flames was going to hold Gudbranson accountable. Hamonic took the bullet for the team. If Prout was in, he holds Gudbranson accountable. Hamonic felt he had no choice. He looked up and down that bench and knew he was the one best equipped to do it.

It's just dumb that the Flames have lost Hamonic to an injury because of a minor roster move that likely wouldn't have had much impact on the game result. Prout would have fought Gudbranson, they likely would have drawed or a slight decision. No one gets seriously hurt.

What i'm saying is, it doesn't matter what the anti fighting crowd thinks, it's what the players in the locker room thinks. Someone was going to respond and it was negligent on Peters part to not have someone equipped to handle Gudbranson.

If the opposition only had a Zac Rinaldo and he pulled a dirty hit on a rookie, you don't need a Prout. A Tkachuk, Hamonic or Bennett could handle a Rinaldo. The Canucks had a guy like Gudbranson, Peters should have put someone in who could keep the players safe. He didn't and now they have lost a top 4 defensemen.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by 868904

Peters should have had Prout in for one of Stone or Valimaki. He should have recognized that the Canucks had someone on their team like Gudbranson and been prepared. I'm not saying he should have dressed Prout and told him to fight Gudbranson off the opening faceoff, but Prout should have been in the line up in case a situation like the Dube hit occured.

Gubranson has averaged 2 fights a year for the last 6 years.

If he's a threat they'd better dress Prout every night.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by 868904

Peters should have had Prout in for one of Stone or Valimaki. He should have recognized that the Canucks had someone on their team like Gudbranson and been prepared. I'm not saying he should have dressed Prout and told him to fight Gudbranson off the opening faceoff, but Prout should have been in the line up in case a situation like the Dube hit occured.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Gudbransen is a standard large defenceman - most teams have one. He's not known as a headhunter, not known as a fighter or cheap shot guy.

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by 868904

You don't understand the culture of the locker room and the team. Someone on the Flames was going to hold Gudbranson accountable. Hamonic took the bullet for the team. If Prout was in, he holds Gudbranson accountable. Hamonic felt he had no choice. He looked up and down that bench and knew he was the one best equipped to do it.

It's just dumb that the Flames have lost Hamonic to an injury because of a minor roster move that likely wouldn't have had much impact on the game result. Prout would have fought Gudbranson, they likely would have drawed or a slight decision. No one gets seriously hurt.

It's not just the flames culture in the room. It's a general hockey culture that is in every room and team involved in a this game, unless it's non contact/women's hockey. It is not just the pros. Until one has been in such a setting or involved directly with it, not all people truly will understand how it is.

Grubrandson should have been held accountable and a scenario similar happens in the future. Someone else will hold him accountable again, as they should. Let's just make sure it's someone who is of equal toughness to do that. Someone who can take a shift and be a neutralizer. Doesn't have to be a deterrent but a neutralizer.