Should Calgary Bid on the 2026 Olympics

[calf]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Yes... but the high vacancy rate affects the assessed value no? So it's not that there isn't an owner to pay property tax but that the assessed value (and consequently the amount of tax gleaned from) is lower. If your building had an assessed value of say $10M but as a result of lower demand/over-supply the value drops to $6M... that's $4M dollars that the city won't be collecting tax on.

Not really - the market value is more used to determine how much of the pie the property has to pay. Let's say the total property taxes to be collected last year and this year is $2.00, $1.00 between two properties. If this property was $10M, and the other property was also $10M, and both have a new assessed value of $6M, both would still pay $1.00. The mill rate used, which is multiplied by the assessed value, would go up proportionally. If one property went to $5M, and the other went up to $15M, the first would pay $0.50, and the second $1.50.

[OMG!WTF!]

So what was Nenshi actually worried about? Do we actually wind up with less property tax when downtown spaces are empty?

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by calf

Not really - the market value is more used to determine how much of the pie the property has to pay. Let's say the total property taxes to be collected last year and this year is $2.00, $1.00 between two properties. If this property was $10M, and the other property was also $10M, and both have a new assessed value of $6M, both would still pay $1.00. The mill rate used, which is multiplied by the assessed value, would go up proportionally. If one property went to $5M, and the other went up to $15M, the first would pay $0.50, and the second $1.50.

This was the issue with the cleavage between downtown and suburban commercial space. The process they use to budget is to manually adjust the mill rate to be revenue neutral - because the assessed value of downtown's office space plummeted by $4b almost overnight, that burden was distributed across the whole city for non-residential properties (which share a common mill rate). The City ended up rebating and capping increases to help soften the blow. But the downtown vacancy rate has definitely had a big impact, overall. Downtown pays about 25% of the (non-residential and non residential) property tax bill, traditionally.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

So what was Nenshi actually worried about? Do we actually wind up with less property tax when downtown spaces are empty?

Not getting the Olympics....

[Tyler]

Turkey is out.

IOC recommends Calgary, Stockholm and Cortina, Italy to move forward with bids.

https://t.co/AfuCRbA2p8

[getbak]

Not really surprising. They were a big long-shot and would have required the most new venues, which doesn't fit with the whole "2020 Vision" thing the IOC is pushing. Going to Turkey would have been more of the same for the IOC.

Now, the question is, will any of the three remaining cities actually stick around until next September, and what will the IOC do if all three drop out? Stockholm and Milan-Cortina still don't have firm commitments from their governments.

[getbak]

Mary Moran did another Q&A last night on the CBC's Facebook page: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ered-1.4849781


Again, nothing new if you've been following things closely.

[craigwd]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

personally i think it is really cool that there is a social media campaign on both facebook and instagram from yesyyc (or something like that), while we still are not allowed to see the details.

for the purposes of my observation, i am assuming that yesyyc (or whomever is running the campaign) is connected with the official city bid folks.

Yes Calgary is completely volunteer driven.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by The Hendog

Todd Hirsh did have an interesting take though when asked about the Olympics. Essentially Todd said he thinks Canadians value and enjoy the winter Olympics and because there is a physical limit on what cities can host the winter Olympics, Calgary and other viable cities have to take turns hosting or there might not be a winter Olympics. He thinks this would be regrettable for Canada as a country and for our people and I tend to agree. !

This is a component that makes hosting the Olympics in '26 attractive. It could set up the foundation for Calgary to host the games repeatedly over the next several decades. Show that at a renewable olympics can be cost efficient, and reduce the need to continually build facilities that won't have use after the games. If we proceed with the bid, win, and it works out well in the end, then it should lead to more games here down the road.

Bouncing back between Calgary, and other cities in the world (even nationally like Vancouver and Montreal possibly) every few decades would make Calgary distinct, and improve it's tourism draw and worldwide prestige.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by The Hendog

Todd Hirsh did have an interesting take though when asked about the Olympics. Essentially Todd said he thinks Canadians value and enjoy the winter Olympics and because there is a physical limit on what cities can host the winter Olympics, Calgary and other viable cities have to take turns hosting or there might not be a winter Olympics. He thinks this would be regrettable for Canada as a country and for our people and I tend to agree.

bah. disagree
I think the reality is more that Canadians love the winter Olympics as it's one of the few international events that Canada can win in.

[Northendzone]

Originally Posted by Joborule

This is a component that makes hosting the Olympics in '26 attractive. It could set up the foundation for Calgary to host the games repeatedly over the next several decades. Show that at a renewable olympics can be cost efficient, and reduce the need to continually build facilities that won't have use after the games. If we proceed with the bid, win, and it works out well in the end, then it should lead to more games here down the road.

Bouncing back between Calgary, and other cities in the world (even nationally like Vancouver and Montreal possibly) every few decades would make Calgary distinct, and improve it's tourism draw and worldwide prestige.

i truly question teh value of tourism draw. i beleive that i am pretty average, and that i know some other average people, and not once have i ever heard anyone say "hey, the last olympics were in XXXXX, the place looked cool, let's go there".

what does worldwide prestige mean?

lastly, if we hold the olympics here every couple of decades, you are still going to need new facilities as they age

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

i truly question teh value of tourism draw. i beleive that i am pretty average, and that i know some other average people, and not once have i ever heard anyone say "hey, the last olympics were in XXXXX, the place looked cool, let's go there".

what does worldwide prestige mean?

lastly, if we hold the olympics here every couple of decades, you are still going to need new facilities as they age

Worldwide prestige means it's a city recognized around the world. If Calgary were to do the Olympics regularly, it would be acknowledged as an Olympic city, and each time it's hosted it would draw people to the city for a few weeks, and in between that, draw more interest in the city and the region for worldwide travelers.

As for the facilities, with or without the olympics, these facilities are going to need to be renovated or replaced either way. That's kinda what were dealing with right now with the 2026 bid. This is an opportunity to renew facilities that already get use, to ensure it continues to do so for the new few decades. By hosting the olympics continually, it could gather funding to our facilities needs, and the overall costs would be cheaper since not everything would have to be a brand new build.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Worldwide prestige means it's a city recognized around the world. If Calgary were to do the Olympics regularly, it would be acknowledged as an Olympic city, and each time it's hosted it would draw people to the city for a few weeks, and in between that, draw more interest in the city and the region for worldwide travelers.

As for the facilities, with or without the olympics, these facilities are going to need to be renovated or replaced either way. That's kinda what were dealing with right now with the 2026 bid. This is an opportunity to renew facilities that already get use, to ensure it continues to do so for the new few decades. By hosting the olympics continually, it could gather funding to our facilities needs, and the overall costs would be cheaper since not everything would have to be a brand new build.

I think this is a point that has largely been overlooked in the debate. Due to the facilities we have from the 88 Olympics (Oval and COP mainly) Calgary has there has been a significant economic spin off. Should these facilities fall into disrepair and/or are mothballed some of these benefits might disappear with them. As a few examples:

1. U of Calgary has (I think) become a bit of a centre of excellence in kinesiology and high performance athletic training due to the number of althletes who train here.

2. Go drop by the Oval almost any time and listen to the number of languages spoken by the people who are training there. They come from all over the world to train in Calgary and bring $$$ with them. And need support services we can provide as well.

3. bobsled/sliding teams train here and live here. So do their coaches, trainers, therapists etc.

4. Hockey Canada is HQ'd here. The women's national team is based here, many of the players, trainers, etc. live here.

Something like 80% of Canada's medalists at the 2018 winter Olympics trained in Calgary.

That's just a small sampling, but add those up and there are probably hundreds of jobs in Calgary that would not be here if not for the facilities and the athletes they attract.

[getbak]

This was released earlier this week, but I don't think it was posted. Here's the much ballyhooed financial due diligence summary that was prepared by the city (with sensitive information redacted). There aren't any numbers in the report, but that should be expected since it only identifies areas of risk where the BidCo's numbers could be wrong: https://pub-calgary.escribemeetings....cumentId=69018

The information in the report has already been reported with the Ooga-booga spin from the CBC, but I didn't really see any huge surprising gotchas in it. It shouldn't be surprising that if the NHL doesn't participate, it would likely hurt the revenue forecast.



On Tuesday of next week, there is another meeting scheduled for the 2026 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games Assessment Committee. In preparation, the city secretariat has prepared this document with answers to previous questions asked by Council: https://pub-calgary.escribemeetings....cumentId=69156

Questions 3, 4, and 5 are probably the most interesting based on the discussions in this thread.

3. Could the security budget change?

4. What capital investments can be made in City facilities with and without the 2026 OPWG?

5. Could a new event centre be part of a future version of the draft plan?

They will also discuss the possibility of releasing any previous reports that had been deemed confidential at the time of their preparation.

[Amethyst]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

i truly question teh value of tourism draw. i beleive that i am pretty average, and that i know some other average people, and not once have i ever heard anyone say "hey, the last olympics were in XXXXX, the place looked cool, let's go there".

what does worldwide prestige mean?

lastly, if we hold the olympics here every couple of decades, you are still going to need new facilities as they age

I moved to Finland in 1990, and the one thing everyone said when they heard where I was from was about the Olympics.

[Manhattanboy]

Looks like things on the arena front are moving in the right direction so my vote is YES.

[chubeyr1]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Looks like things on the arena front are moving in the right direction so my vote is YES.

Is this for the 6000 seat arena that wont be used after the games?

Currently what city council proposes does nothing for our current facilities but the cost is massive. So massive its just no worth it.

Current price for the bid is what 5.4 billion dollars and we dont get useful new facilities.

The Flames asked the city for something like 233 million dollars for a new arena. The city countered that with a loan of 233 million dollars.

This is all peanuts though versus the olympics. A new arena will be used for decades. Creating jobs and making the city money.

The city plays hardball for 233 million, but are willing to spend 5.4 billion plus for 10 days of fun?

Dont get me wrong.

I want a new arena, and I want the olympics too.

I just see this as the lesser of two evils. 233 million is a lot less than 5.4 billion and massive cost over runs.

Honestly the whole thing is a mess.

I cant get behind a new arena, or the Olympics. I am taxed enough already.

The public needs a leader to take command.

Convince me why any of these things are a good investment?

[Weitz]

Am I right that the plebiscite is non-binding?

What the hell is the point of it if its non-binding?

[lazypucker]

Bottom line to me is: How much more taxes do I have to pay to "enjoy" the two weeks of glory?

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Am I right that the plebiscite is non-binding?

What the hell is the point of it if its non-binding?

It's non-binding, but the province tied their funding to a yes vote. So Nenshi just needs to keep the numbers under control until he can get the vote and then it's a done deal. Without the province on board, it would be a much harder sell.

The average Olympics goes 150% over budget, there is ZERO evidence that a Calgary bid would be any different. And no clarity on who would pay those overages.

Originally Posted by lazypucker

Bottom line to me is: How much more taxes do I have to pay to "enjoy" the two weeks of glory?

No one, not even city council or Bid Co, can calculate that since they don't know what the games will cost.