Stabbing in Brentwood-5 Dead, 1 Arrested

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Well I think the fact it would be mandated time in a program and not prison would be a happy medium between the people angry about total release within a few years and the system as-is.

It is mandated time in a program. Once the medical professional deems the patient is cured/has the disorder under control, they are released.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Well I think the fact it would be mandated time in a program and not prison would be a happy medium between the people angry about total release within a few years and the system as-is.

So punish someone for something they're not so the victims' relatives can get their pound of flesh?

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Well I think the fact it would be mandated time in a program and not prison would be a happy medium between the people angry about total release within a few years.

To satisfy those with justice boners. Got it.

I don't see the purpose of punishing someone for something they've been deemed not responsible for. It sucks that mental illness exists and can cause people to do horrific things, but I don't want to live in a society where we feel the need to lock people up "just 'cause".

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

It is mandated time in a program. Once the medical professional deems the patient is cured/has the disorder under control, they are released.

Wasn't aware of that, but ya, my suggestion was clearly just to satisfy/quench those with a thirst for justice (aka justice boners) without overly punishing those NCR.

Clearly not a viable/popular option even though I thought it was a happy medium! I retract my suggestion

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Wasn't aware of that, but ya, my suggestion was clearly just to satisfy/quench those with a thirst for justice (aka justice boners) without overly punishing those NCR.

Clearly not a viable/popular option even though I thought it was a happy medium! I retract my suggestion

Can certainly see where you are coming from. But in some ways, a finding of NCR can result in an even more stringent sentence that what would be allowable in the traditional stream of the legal system.

If you're found NCR and sent to a secure treatment facility, it's indefinite until the doctors treating you deem you fit to be released. There is no parole or statutory release; if they never deem you fit to leave, you don't.



There are also studies that show that individuals who have committed a violent crime and been found NCR re-offend at much lower rate than those sent to prison.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Well I think the fact it would be mandated time in a program and not prison would be a happy medium between the people angry about total release within a few years and the system as-is.

I don't know if these decisions should be made on the basis of making people less angry.

[GGG]

The part I dont like is that we rely on the person with the Mental illness to reliably take their medication without supervision. I think once you are NCR for a persons death you should lose the option to choose whether or not to medicate yourself.

[FlamesAddiction]

I wish I knew what the answer is. Having never been affected to the level as both side have been, it's easy to feel empathy for both.

I guess for me, if doctors and people with expertise think the person is treatable and not a threat; and of course, if they are not legally responsible as defined by our justice system, I don't see how continued incarceration is the answer.

Having said that, if a family member of mine was the victim, I don't think I would be rationalizing the same way either. I guess I just want to put my trust in the experts when it comes to these things and hope for the best.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by KevanGuy

A penalty for having a disease? Nice.

Isn't alcoholism or drug addiction a disease? stab 5 people to death while drunk or high and you may never see freedom again.

Even repeat offenders of drunk driving have gotten 20 years if they kill someone, but somehow someone who claims insanity gets a pass in a cushy hospital and then freedom.

The victims family's must be outraged and totally confused...rightfully so.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Isn't alcoholism or drug addiction a disease? stab 5 people to death while drunk or high and you may never see freedom again.

Even repeat offenders of drunk driving have gotten 20 years if they kill someone, but somehow someone who claims insanity gets a pass in a cushy hospital and then freedom.

The victims family's must be outraged and totally confused...rightfully so.

The difference being that paranoid schizophrenia is something you just develop and you will literally have no idea what happened until you are properly diagnosed and informed of what occurred.

Point being, this could just have easily been you or a family member. As much as people hate it and dismiss it when I ask: Just think if this was you or a close family member/friend. Does your position stay consistent on wanting justice and sentencing to satisfy those affected?

Spoiler alert: Everyone says yes the would remain consistent, human nature suggests the exact opposite. It's generally the lack of personal connection that allows us to hope for punishment, revenge and imprisonment for actions literally beyond ones control.

Thankfully in a progressive country such as this one, the law protects people from society's desires and does what's right for a mentally ill human being.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Well I think the fact it would be mandated time in a program and not prison would be a happy medium between the people angry about total release within a few years and the system as-is.

The angry people don't want him to ever be released back into society. You can't make people filled with vengeance happy.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Dion

The angry people don't want him to ever be released back into society. You can't make people filled with vengeance happy.

I don't agree with this, the angry people just want a little resemblance of justice not 4 years in a club med with locks and happy pills. how about after the doctor's deem him safe for society send him to a minimum security prison for a few years.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

I don't agree with this, the angry people just want a little resemblance of justice not 4 years in a club med with locks and happy pills. how about after the doctor's deem him safe for society send him to a minimum security prison for a few years.

.......why? this post was gross.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Isn't alcoholism or drug addiction a disease? stab 5 people to death while drunk or high and you may never see freedom again.

Even repeat offenders of drunk driving have gotten 20 years if they kill someone, but somehow someone who claims insanity gets a pass in a cushy hospital and then freedom.

The victims family's must be outraged and totally confused...rightfully so.

The family can feel however they want but legally your reasoning is without merit. Obviously there is a difference between someone suffering from a psychotic break from reality through no fault of their own and someone who voluntarily takes drugs or alcohol that creates that state.

“A malfunctioning of the mind that results exclusively from self-induced intoxication cannot be considered a disease of the mind in the legal sense, since it is not a product of the individual’s inherent psychological makeup,” the judge concluded.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada...me-court-rules

[KevanGuy]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Isn't alcoholism or drug addiction a disease? stab 5 people to death while drunk or high and you may never see freedom again.

Even repeat offenders of drunk driving have gotten 20 years if they kill someone, but somehow someone who claims insanity gets a pass in a cushy hospital and then freedom.

The victims family's must be outraged and totally confused...rightfully so.

No, it's not the same. Addiction and paranoid schizophrenia are not the same. Do you see many NCRs from drunk driving? No? Because you are still responsible for your drinking, even if addicted.

Also, you dont now what the familes are thinking or feeling, so leave that out. You know how YOU think you'd feel in their situation but you're not.

[KevanGuy]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

I don't agree with this, the angry people just want a little resemblance of justice not 4 years in a club med with locks and happy pills. how about after the doctor's deem him safe for society send him to a minimum security prison for a few years.

You're obviously pretty up on the ins and outs of his treatment plan so far. Care to share what you know?

[metallicat]

Just a note from a non expert like myself - antipsychotic medication for things like schizophrenia can be given via injection that can help keep his illness at bay for life. He may not always have to remember to take daily pills.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by KevanGuy

No, it's not the same. Addiction and paranoid schizophrenia are not the same. Do you see many NCRs from drunk driving? No? Because you are still responsible for your drinking, even if addicted.

Also, you dont now what the familes are thinking or feeling, so leave that out. You know how YOU think you'd feel in their situation but you're not.

Each family may have different thoughts about this, but there are certainly some that are completely outraged by all of it.

The move is in part a result of the “toxic” atmosphere de Grood faces in Calgary, including the anger of the victims’ families and public backlash.

Following de Grood’s last review hearing in Calgary on Sept. 7, family members of the victims said in a statement that they are urging the review board “to recognize the risk of him being released into society in any capacity is far too great.”

Gregg Perras, father of Kaitlin Perras, said Wednesday he agrees with the board’s decision to move de Grood to Alberta Hospital in Edmonton. However, he added he disagrees “vehemently” with the board’s decision to go beyond the recommendations of the treatment team.

“The board has taken it on themselves to accelerate his reintegration by their granting of additional privileges such as unsupervised on the grounds and visits to Edmonton with a ‘responsible adult,’” he said.

Perras called the NCR process a “very flawed system.”

“No one in the process acts for the victims and we as victims were only mentioned once during the hearing,” he said.

“From the presentations to the board on each of de Grood’s previous hearings as well as this hearing, it is clear that the victims have strong views and feelings about de Grood and what should happen to him.”

https://calgarysun.com/news/crime/qu...-the-community

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by metallicat

Just a note from a non expert like myself - antipsychotic medication for things like schizophrenia can be given via injection that can help keep his illness at bay for life. He may not always have to remember to take daily pills.

I can’t imagine ever forgetting to take it knowing you killed people when you weren’t on that medication.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

I don't agree with this, the angry people just want a little resemblance of justice not 4 years in a club med with locks and happy pills. how about after the doctor's deem him safe for society send him to a minimum security prison for a few years.

I don't really want to live in a society where "justice" is locking sick people up to satiate the vengeance and bloodlust of others.