Practice notes Oct 1 Lazar with team. Mangiapane & Gillies missing. Rittich is backup

[foshizzle11]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I still like Frolik better with Bennett and Jankowski

Me too, but I think Czarnik brings a bit more uptempo to that line and compliment Benntt and Jankowski.

I think we will see Czarnik with Chucky and Backs soon enough though, they seemed to click pretty well in the preseason. Especially if the offense isn't rolling, Peters likes to mix things up, which I like.

Can that real games please start soon...

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by transplant99

So this "new method" is to suggest that not playing regularly is better for development of a very young player, than playing every game on Stocktons schedule?

That's absurd and you dont need case studies to know that.

Practicing against Brodie and Gio and whoever else is fine and all, but nothing replaces learning...like doing.

That is correct. You are not talking about Valimaki or another player who has not played in the AHL. You are talking about someone who has 2 years of experience in the AHL and dominated and doesn't have a lot more to prove there. He is 22 not 18.

Players in the NHL are a lot better and faster than players in the AHL. Mangiapane will also get into a games and play when there are injuries or if someone isn't playing well. If he plays well during those games, he can make a regular spot on the team for himself. There are also other intangibles with staying with the main roster, which includes practicing with top tier talent, learning how to be a pro at the NHL level, building relationships, and training. All of these intangibles can be instrumental for a player who most likely will make the roster next year but already have a lot of experience under his belt.

I am a little disappointed though that you provided absolutely no evidence for why this is such an absurd idea? I mean you might be right, just look at how many players the Flames have developed when they have given players an extra year or two of AHL seasoning... The latest casualty might be Andersson (if he is sent down) who was sent down for seasoning last year and most likely will not play too many games again this year because he got passed by Valimaki (despite dominating the AHL last year).

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by keenan87

...That being said, you are obviously right, no one should ever sway away from conventions! What has happened for hundreds of years should continue... Do you also not believe in women's suffrage?

I am not suggesting what I am saying will definitely work. However, unless you can provide a study on why the status quo is the best alternative, then no, you have no credentials to call my suggestion silly bud. You see new strategies always being implemented in sports.

A Lot of this is obvious hyperbole, but I think his point is pretty salient. Can you offer a good reason to keep Mangiapane out of games and in the press box? How does that help a young player with real NHL potential to reach it?

I'm not opposed to counter suggestions, it's just that in this case it is really difficult to see any value in the alternative you have proposed. The reason the NHL has done some things the same way for many decades is that it works. In this case, returning young players to get big minutes in the AHL as opposed to keeping them on the roster and in the press box is something that works better than the reciprocate.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by keenan87

That is correct. You are not talking about Valimaki or another player who has not played in the AHL. You are talking about someone who has 2 years of experience in the AHL and dominated and doesn't have a lot more to prove there. He is 22 not 18.

Players in the NHL are a lot better and faster than players in the AHL. Mangiapane will also get into a games and play when there are injuries or if someone isn't playing well. If he plays well during those games, he can make a regular spot on the team for himself. There are also other intangibles with staying with the main roster, which includes practicing with top tier talent, learning how to be a pro at the NHL level, building relationships, and training. All of these intangibles can be instrumental for a player who most likely will make the roster next year but already have a lot of experience under his belt.

I am a little disappointed though that you provided absolutely no evidence for why this is such an absurd idea? I mean you might be right, just look at how many players the Flames have developed when they have given players an extra year or two of AHL seasoning...

Nobody is going to have evidence, and additionally nobody can say what every NHL GM and coach is thinking or would think.

But I would assume that 95% of hockey people would rather have top prospects playing than just practicing and watching.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

A Lot of this is obvious hyperbole, but I think his point is pretty salient. Can you offer a good reason to keep Mangiapane out of games and in the press box? How does that help a young player with real NHL potential to reach it?

I'm not opposed to counter suggestions, it's just that in this case it is really difficult to see any value in the alternative you have proposed. The reason the NHL has done some things the same way for many decades is that it works. In this case, returning young players to get big minutes in the AHL as opposed to keeping them on the roster and in the press box is something that works better than the reciprocate.

I said it's an idea and made another post about it (may have been after your latest post though). I don't if this will work but why not give it a shot? That's great that the NHL has done things for decades but that doesn't automatically make things "right".

Just look at baseball, Tampa Bay scrapped the idea of "Starting pitchers" and went with relievers to start the game. I don't know if it would be considered a success for them but it was something innovate and outside the box. Like I said, not like the Flames have been very successful developing players in the AHL, so doesn't hurt to try.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Nobody is going to have evidence, and additionally nobody can say what every NHL GM and coach is thinking or would think.

But I would assume that 95% of hockey people would rather have top prospects playing than just practicing and watching.

Bingo, I agree with you and it might be the best approach. However, it always takes 1 person to do something different that most people think is crazy. I don't know what the answer is but this is just my opinion.

[burnitdown]

Originally Posted by transplant99

The problem though, at least in this case, is that Mangiapane is a top 2 line F. Who does he displace to the press box when he comes into a game?

Unless you believe he would learn better playing 4th line minutes...which i think most would agree isnt exactly playing to his strengths.

I hear what you're saying but I think we have quite good depth up-front so I none of our lines will be offensive blackholes like previous years, where he'd have a hard time playing with Lazar and Stajan in limited minutes. I think it's fine if he starts playing 10-12 mins per night with Bennett and Jankowski or Neal and Ryan every second game and move him up if he shows well.

There are always injuries that open up spots too. Czarnik has shown strong flashes, but he's yet to establish himself in the NHL so I can easily foresee him sitting for a good 10-20 games this year to give some others a chance to pop in the lineup. Same with Dube. Even Bennett and Jankowski might sit for 5 games this year again. I think keeping the pressure on everyone isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Either way, I don't disagree with what you're saying. I just feel those that say it's a silly suggestion to even consider keeping him up are over-simplifying things as there is some merit - creating internal competition, having them practice with the big club, and not wasting our bench spots on old veterans who can't play nearly as well.

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I still like Frolik better with Bennett and Jankowski

Just trying to drag down Tkachuk's point totals this season, to keep his second contract reasonable

[Stanley]

Originally Posted by foshizzle11

Me too, but I think Czarnik brings a bit more uptempo to that line and compliment Benntt and Jankowski.

I think we will see Czarnik with Chucky and Backs soon enough though, they seemed to click pretty well in the preseason. Especially if the offense isn't rolling, Peters likes to mix things up, which I like.

Can that real games please start soon...

Yea I'm surprised they haven't gone back to Chuck/Backs/Czar yet, that line looked VERY promising

I personally think Frolik is a 3rd/4th liner at best

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by keenan87

I agree and it might be the best approach. However, it always takes 1 person to do something different that most people think is crazy. I don't know what the answer is but this is just my opinion.

All good man.

I've seen a few suggestions of delaying big decisions and rotating players in before final cuts are made, so you're not on an island.

The Lazar waiver flexibility gives them an easy fix if they want to mix things up

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by burnitdown

I hear what you're saying but I think we have quite good depth up-front so I none of our lines will be offensive blackholes like previous years, where he'd have a hard time playing with Lazar and Stajan in limited minutes. I think it's fine if he starts playing 10-12 mins per night with Bennett and Jankowski or Neal and Ryan every second game and move him up if he shows well.

There are always injuries that open up spots too. Czarnik has shown strong flashes, but he's yet to establish himself in the NHL so I can easily foresee him sitting for a good 10-20 games this year to give some others a chance to pop in the lineup. Same with Dube. Even Bennett and Jankowski might sit for 5 games this year again. I think keeping the pressure on everyone isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Either way, I don't disagree with what you're saying. I just feel those that say it's a silly suggestion to even consider keeping him up are over-simplifying things as there is some merit - creating internal competition, having them practice with the big club, and not wasting our bench spots on old veterans who can't play nearly as well.

Right, at which point you call him up and slot him in...and he will be ready for game action because he will be in game shape after playing all of them with Stockton.

That's why you have a league like the AHL...its for development primarily, so let your players develop. Something that just wont happen as quickly when sitting in the press box for 30 or 40 or whatever games a year in the NHL.

[Drunk Uncle]

Originally Posted by Bingo

And oddly enough we never saw that in the preseason.

We did see it in the first game in China. They looked meh together then, but it's pretty hard to judge from only one game especially when it is the first game for a lot of the guys.

I would bet we see them together again at some point in the season though.

[Icon]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Pat Steinberg @Fan960Steinberg
now
#Flames today:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm
Tkachuk-Backlund-Frolik
Dube-Ryan-Neal
Bennett-Jankowski-Czarnik
Lazar-Hathaway

Giordano-Brodie
Hanifin-Hamonic
Valimaki-Stone
Andersson-Prout

I'd swap Frolik and Czarnik but otherwise I love it!

[FBI]

Color me shocked that Valimaki makes it above Andersson.. Kudos to the management for going bold though.. I like both Valimaki and Andersson above Kulak so pretty pumped about that..

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by FBI

Color me shocked that Valimaki makes it above Andersson.. Kudos to the management for going bold though.. I like both Valimaki and Andersson above Kulak so pretty pumped about that..

I don't think it happens if Andersson shoots left

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by FBI

Color me shocked that Valimaki makes it above Andersson.. Kudos to the management for going bold though.. I like both Valimaki and Andersson above Kulak so pretty pumped about that..

I think it is more of a lefty/righty issue, but yeah, it is clear they have faith in Valimaki for the start of the season.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by FBI

Color me shocked that Valimaki makes it above Andersson.. Kudos to the management for going bold though.. I like both Valimaki and Andersson above Kulak so pretty pumped about that..

It might be hear say but I believe that Andersson is not comfortable of the left side. I think that someone was talking about in on the fan960. All the same, when an injury happens he will be the first to take a spot on the right side.

[FBI]

I guess Valimaki scored a few goals in preseason too

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Bingo

And oddly enough we never saw that in the preseason.

Tkachuk-Backlund-Neal were a line during the 1st game in China. Not sure if it happened after.

[Strange Brew]

Lazar is actually more valuable now that he has cleared waivers. Could he be traded for one of the waiver goalies out there assuming they also clear? Or one that already cleared?

Not impossible.

Still gives you one two many goalies for Stockton but maybe just temporary. Puts Rittich on a short leash.