[PGT] The Czar Takes Over. 5-2 W over Vancouver.

[Groot]

Regarding the forward lines, I really wanna see something like...

Gaudreau - Monahan - Neal
1st Scoring line, I'm sure they'll find their chemistry and the defensive concerns are overblown. Should be a more effective version of last year's line w/ Ferland which was damn good for large chunks of the year.

Tkachuk - Lindholm - Czarnik
This could breakout into a really strong 2nd scoring line that is still responsible defensively. Tkachuk and Czarnik seem to have instant chemistry and Lindholm can play centre no problem. Not saying he's the 2nd best centre on our team (though he could turn out to be), but it leaves us with a great defensive line.

Bennett - Backlund - Ryan
Our true defensive shutdown line, could be a premier defensive line in the league that will also be able to contribute offensively. Backlund and Ryan split faceoffs as needed. Bennett gets back on Backlund's wing where he had his best season to-date.

Mangiapane/Dube - Jankowski - Frolik
A 4th line that, if it clicks, could be one of the best 4th lines in the league and doesn't have to be limited to 8-9 mins per night. Makes matchups a nightmare for opposition. Frolik can be the calming veteran presence on the line and the two young guys (whether its Dube or Mangiapane) develop both sides of the game.

[Bourque's Twin]

I think that Tkachuk will make any of his linemates better, whether it’s Neal, Czarnik or Lindholm.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm with Enoch ... I don't think you move Stone yet.

a) I've never been as down on him as others, he's a pretty good containment defenseman. He has little transition, but he keeps guys wide and seals them well. Some numbers ... Stone's high danger chances against per 60 minutes last year was 3rd on the team behind Giordano and Hamilton, and ahead of Brodie, Hamonic and Kulak. He just doesn't get in much trouble.

b) Stone has had the ability to move up the roster and play top four minutes for short to medium terms. That's hugely valueable on a hockey team if one of Brodie or Hamonic get hurt. This might be alleviated if Andersson can do the same thing.

What may be interesting to some fans as we don't tend to follow CBJ very closely is that before Prout's injury troubles he was actually relied on quite a bit by CBJ.

In 2015-2016 Prout averaged 16:10 over 64 games
In 2014-2015 Prout averaged 18:25 over 63 games
In 2013-2014 Prout averaged 17:12 over 49 games

Now Stone averaged more over the same timeframe although arguably on a weaker team

In 2015-2016 Stone averaged 22:58 in 75 games
In 2014-2015 Stone averaged 20:52 in 81 games
In 2013-2014 Stone averaged 18:12 over 70 games

So yeah I think your point holds that Stone can play top 4 minutes. As you say though perhaps a guy like Andersson can step up and do that instead of Stone.

Stone can be a great 5/6 guy as he can play top 4 as you note.
Prout may be ideal as a 6/7.

Problem is that they play exactly the same role. Right shot physical defensive defenseman. And Hamonic plays that role at a higher level as well. And then you have Andersson pushing as a puck moving right shot and PP dman. Suddenly we're swimming in good right shot dmen options even after dealing Hamilton.

Gonna be interesting to see how it all shakes out. I really don't like Andersson or Stone playing their off side though. Bill Peters has talked about guys playing their off side needing to be excellent skaters and neither of them are. So I think that gives Kulak a bit of an edge in keeping his spot on the team.

IMO it's Kulak vs Kylington vs Valimaki. And I think Valimaki needs some AHL seasoning.
And then it's Stone vs Prout vs Andersson. And they all look good to me.

Something's gotta give or you just go with Kulak, Stone and Prout for now until injuries hit and then Andersson/Kylington/Valimaki get the recall.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Groot

Regarding the forward lines, I really wanna see something like...

Gaudreau - Monahan - Neal
1st Scoring line, I'm sure they'll find their chemistry and the defensive concerns are overblown. Should be a more effective version of last year's line w/ Ferland which was damn good for large chunks of the year.

Tkachuk - Lindholm - Czarnik
This could breakout into a really strong 2nd scoring line that is still responsible defensively. Tkachuk and Czarnik seem to have instant chemistry and Lindholm can play centre no problem. Not saying he's the 2nd best centre on our team (though he could turn out to be), but it leaves us with a great defensive line.

Bennett - Backlund - Ryan
Our true defensive shutdown line, could be a premier defensive line in the league that will also be able to contribute offensively. Backlund and Ryan split faceoffs as needed. Bennett gets back on Backlund's wing where he had his best season to-date.

Mangiapane/Dube - Jankowski - Frolik
A 4th line that, if it clicks, could be one of the best 4th lines in the league and doesn't have to be limited to 8-9 mins per night. Makes matchups a nightmare for opposition. Frolik can be the calming veteran presence on the line and the two young guys (whether its Dube or Mangiapane) develop both sides of the game.

Ryan is really strong on the draw, but he isn’t really a defensive specialist. Peters has typically used him in a more offensive role.

Just saying that if you want a pure shutdown line then Frolik is likely a better fit on that line. Then the fourth line can have some easier offensive zone match ups.

[sa226]

It'll be interesting how Peters works match ups this year.

If Backlund is still the defensive matchup guy. Is the Czar the best winger for him?

Maybe the Monahan line will get more matchups with Lindholm as their RW.



Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Wouldn't shock me if Treliving was burning up the phones trying to move Stone for whatever he can get. Solves a lot of problems.

Why would we just dump defensive depth, regardless of contract, just to solve the problem of having defensive depth?

No point doing that unless you think the return makes us better now or you have the next move ready in the chamber to use that freed up cap space to make us better now. Not saying that’s not a possibility but I don’t think BT and the Flames view the potential bottom pairing log jam issue the same way some fans do. They likely view it as a positive and have less anxiety around not knowing exactly what the final pairing will be and are less anxious to ensure the final pairing is seen as cost effective for game #1

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Why would we just dump defensive depth, regardless of contract, just to solve the problem of having defensive depth?

Because your team is better with that "defensive depth" not being a regular, and that contract virtually dictates that player being a regular.

You think ownership is okay with Stone being in the press box for the next two years, even if that's where he ought to be? At 3.5M/2Y, that's not a guy you want eating popcorn.

Not only does his salary force (yet another, as if Raymond/Brouwer/Bouma weren't enough) buyout of year 3 of his deal, it kills any return value Stone might hypothetically have (assuming he has any, which I don't know if he does). No one will trade for Stone if he is a regular healthy scratch. But he's not good enough to make the team better. That cap space could, however, make the team better.

Trading him sooner rather than later is common sense at this point because we've seen how ineffective he is without OEL / Brodie setting him up for a bunch of one-timers, which is his only real NHL-level skill.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Because your team is better with that "defensive depth" not being a regular, and that contract virtually dictates that player being a regular.

You think ownership is okay with Stone being in the press box for the next two years, even if that's where he ought to be? At 3.5M/2Y, that's not a guy you want eating popcorn.

Not only does his salary force (yet another, as if Raymond/Brouwer/Bouma weren't enough) buyout of year 3 of his deal, it kills any return value Stone might hypothetically have (assuming he has any, which I don't know if he does). No one will trade for Stone if he is a regular healthy scratch. But he's not good enough to make the team better. That cap space could, however, make the team better.

Trading him sooner rather than later is common sense at this point because we've seen how ineffective he is without OEL / Brodie setting him up for a bunch of one-timers, which is his only real NHL-level skill.

I’m not saying you don’t move him, but there is no urgency to do so until we get a deal we like (unlikely) or we have use for the cap space. Stone is not Bouma or Brower bad at this point. The Flames are entering win now mode, and as it sits today are better with Stone than without.

It’s still very much in the air if any of the players being mentioned are superior to him as of today. Don’t get me wrong, I hope, and even think it’s possible that Stone is made irrelevant this season by our young D, but I don’t think our GM should be scrambling around trying to dump him for a bag of pucks just so we can say our 3rd pairing is cost effective five. Stone isn’t entering the same territory yet of the 3 players you named and D men are much more often in demand, given it’s a much harder position for young players to step into and be effective.

There is zero rush to move Stone now unless you like the return or you have move B pending. This type of stuff happens every preseason, for some reason some fans get super ancy about who makes the opening night roster and trade proposals to get rid of veteran X for a bag of pucks because rookie X has clearly passed them on the depth chat for 1/4 of the cost because of distant observations during meaningless games just start flying.

Don’t get me wrong, I love optimism about the youngsters, but opening night roster is a false deadline that only matters to the fans.

[JetsFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by bax

Ryan is really strong on the draw, but he isn’t really a defensive specialist. Peters has typically used him in a more offensive role.

Just saying that if you want a pure shutdown line then Frolik is likely a better fit on that line. Then the fourth line can have some easier offensive zone match ups.

I have no idea why any team in the NHL in 2018 would want a pure shutdown line. If you don't have superstars like Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, McDavid (ick) you need to roll four lines that present a real offensive threat to be a serious contenders. Not saying you need 4 pure offensive lines, but there has to be scoring up and down the lineup.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Because your team is better with that "defensive depth" not being a regular, and that contract virtually dictates that player being a regular.

You think ownership is okay with Stone being in the press box for the next two years, even if that's where he ought to be? At 3.5M/2Y, that's not a guy you want eating popcorn.

Not only does his salary force (yet another, as if Raymond/Brouwer/Bouma weren't enough) buyout of year 3 of his deal, it kills any return value Stone might hypothetically have (assuming he has any, which I don't know if he does). No one will trade for Stone if he is a regular healthy scratch. But he's not good enough to make the team better. That cap space could, however, make the team better.

Trading him sooner rather than later is common sense at this point because we've seen how ineffective he is without OEL / Brodie setting him up for a bunch of one-timers, which is his only real NHL-level skill.

There should be zero urgency to move a defenseman. If we get out of October without an injury to the blue line, I'll stop smoking weed.

Stone is always going to be moveable. He's a useful NHL player, he's enormous, and he's only under contract for 20 more months at $3M. And nobody has ever missed the playoffs because of Michael Stone's quality 16 minutes a night.

Life finds a way. Andersson, Kylington and Valimaki are going to make Hamonic, Kulak and Stone expendable. Until they actually do, roll with Hamonic, Stone, and Kulak and trust that the cream will rise to the top. The management knows how good the three prospect D are, and they know the limitations on Hamonic/Stone/Kulak.

Every one of the kids has it in them to be light years better than the guys ahead of them. So prove it. And until they do, the Flames can continue to roll out serviceable NHL talent night in and night out.

The team hasn't struggled defensively because the players suck.

Gio-Hamilton
Brodie-Hamonic
Kulak-Stone

That's not the best blue line ever, but it doesn't suck, and if a coach can't make that work, it's on the coach. If you watch AC's videos of TJ Brodie making 120 ft tape to tape passes in the air through neutral zone off his backhand from the right side and your response is 'HUR DUR LEFT SHOT ON LEFT SIDE CUZ REASONS!', you're a ####ing fool.

The team has struggled defensively because the last two coaches have not been up to the task of being head coaches in the modern NHL.

Early pre-season returns are, Bill Peters is not a fool. Hope remains.

[calumniate]

I just hope we don't give up anymore significant assets for more d-men. The trade for bouwmeester when half our cap was already on the blue line? Hamilton I didn't mind.. Then hamonic.. Lol. It's gotta stop. We've been trying to buy the 'best d in the league' for so long. I'm glad we finally have some semblance of forward depth

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by calumniate

I just hope we don't give up anymore significant assets for more d-men. The trade for bouwmeester when half our cap was already on the blue line? Hamilton I didn't mind.. Then hamonic.. Lol. It's gotta stop. We've been trying to buy the 'best d in the league' for so long. I'm glad we finally have some semblance of forward depth

I don't see how they could justify bringing in another NHL blue liner at this point. Obviously make an exception if you have the chance to acquire Erik Karlsson for the Sharks' package, but otherwise, the Flames have three guys in the AHL who can probably play in the NHL tomorrow. It doesn't make sense.

Treliving said it's the deepest group of forwards that he's ever had - no ####. It's the deepest group of forwards they've had since 2008, and on paper I'd say it's better.

If they're going to spend resources, it has to be on a goalie. But it doesn't make too much sense to do that barring a Smith injury when you can just sign Bobrovsky on July 1.

[Flamescuprun2018]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

I’m not saying you don’t move him, but there is no urgency to do so until we get a deal we like (unlikely) or we have use for the cap space. Stone is not Bouma or Brower bad at this point. The Flames are entering win now mode, and as it sits today are better with Stone than without.

It’s still very much in the air if any of the players being mentioned are superior to him as of today. Don’t get me wrong, I hope, and even think it’s possible that Stone is made irrelevant this season by our young D, but I don’t think our GM should be scrambling around trying to dump him for a bag of pucks just so we can say our 3rd pairing is cost effective five. Stone isn’t entering the same territory yet of the 3 players you named and D men are much more often in demand, given it’s a much harder position for young players to step into and be effective.

There is zero rush to move Stone now unless you like the return or you have move B pending. This type of stuff happens every preseason, for some reason some fans get super ancy about who makes the opening night roster and trade proposals to get rid of veteran X for a bag of pucks because rookie X has clearly passed them on the depth chat for 1/4 of the cost because of distant observations during meaningless games just start flying.

Don’t get me wrong, I love optimism about the youngsters, but opening night roster is a false deadline that only matters to the fans.

Agreed. We are now entering the BT era where are finally trading from a position of strength. We can wait for the right deal when a team desperately needs a right handed top 4 because of injuries or other. Trade deadline would seem best time if our youth continues to excel and we feel we have plenty of D depth for playoffs. Hoping to get a 2nd rounder back that we lost with Hamonic deal.

Prout signing really further allows for such a trade deadline move. Prout very steady out there.

[skeena1]

Originally Posted by Mike F

Canucks better get a Bud Light Lamp to alert when Petterson is on the ice, because that's going to be the only thing worth watching on that team this season.

Yeah, Horvat and Boeser got nothing.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by skeena1

Yeah, Horvat and Boeser got nothing.

Boeser-Horvat-Petterson. Congratulations, you have a first line. Come back when you have a hockey team.

[FBI]

Yup that's what I was going to say too. Let's wait till the trade deadline and then send Stone off for a 2nd rounder if our young guys are ready.

[bax]

Originally Posted by JetsFlamesFan

I have no idea why any team in the NHL in 2018 would want a pure shutdown line. If you don't have superstars like Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, McDavid (ick) you need to roll four lines that present a real offensive threat to be a serious contenders. Not saying you need 4 pure offensive lines, but there has to be scoring up and down the lineup.

Of course and Bennett-Backlund-Frolik is still more than capable of providing some secondary offense while always being the tough match up line.

[Strange Brew]

I’m not sure you move Stone. If Treliving does one day make a trade for a long term number one, it might involve one of the defensemen ahead of him in the depth chart. I think you keep Stone around for a while.

[dino7c]

Neal is a vet...he is half assing it right now. Don't worry he will be ready on the 3rd

[Jimdon]

Originally Posted by JetsFlamesFan

I have no idea why any team in the NHL in 2018 would want a pure shutdown line. If you don't have superstars like Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, McDavid (ick) you need to roll four lines that present a real offensive threat to be a serious contenders. Not saying you need 4 pure offensive lines, but there has to be scoring up and down the lineup.

If a teams second or third line can play the other teams first line to a draw there is big time value.