[News] Updated cost for Calgary to host the 2026 Olympic to be $5.23 billion.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

So Nenshi is throwing out a half-baked $5B Olympic bid, and hoping that CSEC will join in, after criticizing CSEC that CalgaryNext was half baked.

With the amount of money the city would be spending on the Olympics (with this ridiculous proposal), we could get a new arena and a new stadium.

What a #### show.

Plot twist: This entire thing has been a ruse to drum up support for a new arena and stadium. Because if you wanted to get people behind it, an embarrassing poverty games bid like this isn't the worst idea since the possible "alternative" of spending that money on the arena and stadium is far, far more palatable.

[Buck Murdock]

We could easily get 10-15 pieces of Nenshi's public art for 3 billion. Big blue circles FTW.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Incogneto

Just so everyone understands the breakdown, $5.3B = $3B paid by three forms of govt.

This has not been broken down yet, but it is believed to be 50% federal ($1.5B), 25-25 Prov-City, meaning Calgary residents are on the hook for $750M.

This $750M cost would mean improvements to McMahon, The Oval, Winsport, etc, along with a new field house and rink to replace the Corral.
(ETA: Much of these improvements are going to be done anyway.)

$750M between 1M residents, over a 10 year span (2019-2029) would be $75 per person per year.

Is the Olympics worth $75 a year to you?

The amount of money they are talking about, to 'upgrade' decrepit venues, is no more than what it would have cost to get new ones with the CalgaryNext proposal.

I am not saying we should do CalgaryNext, but wasting the available funding from an Olympic bid, to simply be left with upgrades to two very old complexes, is a mind-numbingly backwards decision.

[RM14]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

With no real legacy from those federal dollars.

And once Calgary gets those federal dollars (and wastes them upgrading McMahon), you can rest assured there won't be any more federal dollars rolling this way any time soon.

From what I understand the Federal money comes out of a "hosting international invents" budget. If Calgary doesn't bid for it, it will go to another city in Canada for the exact same purpose (similar to the Pan Am games). It doesn't affect regular federal funding to Calgary.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Plot twist: This entire thing has been a ruse to drum up support for a new arena and stadium. Because if you wanted to get people behind it, an embarrassing poverty games bid like this isn't the worst idea since the possible "alternative" of spending that money on the arena and stadium is far, far more palatable.

I agree, and I think that is what they are doing. But is there time for that to play out properly? When does this bid have to be decided on?

Because there is no way in hell I would support it on the 'hopes' that everyone comes together with a little more funding and does it right.

The right thing to do is make a proper proposal, so that you can get sufficient federal support for the new structures that you want/need.

[username]

Originally Posted by Incogneto

You don't, and no they won't.

It's $750M over 10 years. $75 per person, per year.

For the municipal portion yes, but when the province and feds kick in that's our tax dollars as well so you would need to add that on to the 75....not that it's going to be a lot of money, I just think you need to add it for context. The real cost to a Calgary is likely over a 100 per year with our provincial and federal portion added in.

[Muta]

I see the Olympics as the only way to build new facilities / upgrade multiple outdated facilities in the quickest and most efficient way possible, and with funding from sources that usually wouldn't be present through other means. For a city lacking in new infrastructure, we really should be looking for ways to make this work at all costs.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by RM14

From what I understand the Federal money comes out of a "hosting international invents" budget. If Calgary doesn't bid for it, it will go to another city in Canada for the exact same purpose (similar to the Pan Am games). It doesn't affect regular federal funding to Calgary.

It absolutely affects other funding because, afterwards, they have the 'we just dropped $2B on your Olympic bid' argument.

Politically, the appetite to spend on the next upcoming projects - regardless of which budgets they may be coming from - would move elsewhere.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Muta

I see the Olympics as the only way to build new facilities / upgrade multiple outdated facilities in the quickest and most efficient way possible, and with funding from sources that usually wouldn't be present through other means. For a city lacking in new infrastructure, we really should be looking for ways to make this work at all costs.

Exactly. Olympics are the largest window/opportunity possible for getting new facilities. Squandering that opportunity by upgrading 40 year old buildings would be criminally inept.

[RM14]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

It absolutely affects other funding because, afterwards, they have the 'we just dropped $2B on your Olympic bid' argument.

Politically, the appetite to spend on the next upcoming projects - regardless of which budgets they may be coming from - would move elsewhere.

because of natural bias? I buy that.

But it is a separate budget.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Muta

I see the Olympics as the only way to build new facilities / upgrade multiple outdated facilities in the quickest and most efficient way possible, and with funding from sources that usually wouldn't be present through other means. For a city lacking in new infrastructure, we really should be looking for ways to make this work at all costs.

Nah, at all costs is pretty extreme. Within reason is a much better take.

[Joborule]

It's a little bit amusing seeing the first responses in the thread about the lack of a new arena and a new stadium.

The arena is different issue that's getting sorted out with CSEC. City still needs to have negotiating power if they want CSEC to invest as much as they possibly can to building a new arena. There's plenty of time between now, and 2026 to strike a deal, have shovels in the ground, and open the new hockey arena. The bid doesn't explicitly state a new large arena, but it assumes to be part of it indirectly.

As for the stadium, this is the CFL, not the NFL. CSEC is already asking the government to fork over a crapton of money to a new arena. There's no way that they're gonna get a crapton for a brand new stadium also. The best that can be done is renovations to the current stadium, and honestly, that's sufficient. The foundation of the stadium is fine, but the aesthetics and features is what needs work. The proposed renovations is ideal for a CFL stadium. Opening up and upgrading the concourse, patio sections, and a new suite level essentially checks all the boxes of what CSEC should want to improve the football experience.

Including the ceremonies at McMahon gives the city and CSEC an ability to kill two birds with one stone here. They'll be able to gather funding from higher level governments to fund the renovations to McMahon since it's an Olympic venue; and this likely was the only way there would be any money going towards that, or any football stadium for that matter.

After the games are done, a new hockey arena, and a renovated football stadium would be part of the legacy. Although with or without the olympics, the hockey arena would get done.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by RM14

because of natural bias? I buy that.

But it is a separate budget.

Not natural bias, political capital. From a city with very little political capital because we don't put any Liberals on the hill.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Nah, at all costs is pretty extreme. Within reason is a much better take.

Figure of speech...

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Joborule

It's a little bit amusing seeing the first responses in the thread about the lack of a new arena and a new stadium.

The arena is different issue that's getting sorted out with CSEC. City still needs to have negotiating power if they want CSEC to invest as much as they possibly can to building a new arena. There's plenty of time between now, and 2026 to strike a deal, have shovels in the ground, and open the new hockey arena. The bid doesn't explicitly state a new large arena, but it assumes to be part of it indirectly.

As for the stadium, this is the CFL, not the NFL. CSEC is already asking the government to fork over a crapton of money to a new arena. There's no way that they're gonna get a crapton for a brand new stadium also. The best that can be done is renovations to the current stadium, and honestly, that's sufficient. The foundation of the stadium is fine, but the aesthetics and features is what needs work. The proposed renovations is ideal for a CFL stadium. Opening up and upgrading the concourse, patio sections, and a new suite level essentially checks all the boxes of what CSEC should want to improve the football experience.

Including the ceremonies at McMahon gives the city and CSEC an ability to kill two birds with one stone here. They'll be able to gather funding from higher level governments to fund the renovations to McMahon since it's an Olympic venue; and this likely was the only way there would be any money going towards that, or any football stadium for that matter.

After the games are done, a new hockey arena, and a renovated football stadium would be part of the legacy. Although with or without the olympics, the hockey arena would get done.

One could make the case that this Olympic bid actually weakens the city's position with CSEC in negotiating a new building. Because if this bid goes through (with everyone assuming a new arena will eventually be part of it), CSEC will have the city by the balls, because NOT getting an arena would be a disaster for this bid and for the city.

[Finger Cookin]

"Modernizing" with regards to McMahon and the Dome is slang for demolishing and then building brand new facilities, right?

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

One could make the case that this Olympic bid actually weakens the city's position with CSEC in negotiating a new building. Because if this bid goes through (with everyone assuming a new arena will eventually be part of it), CSEC will have the city by the balls, because NOT getting an arena would be a disaster for this bid and for the city.

It would be a disaster for CSEC to not step up now and contribute their fair share while the City has a flow of Federal funding to manipulate into the arena contribution. Later, and it’s back to the 100% public contribution for public benefit discussion where it’s going to be harder to get that City amount to where CSEC wants it.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Muta

Figure of speech...

The problem is that "at all costs" is actually the best way to get the public on board. Getting basically nothing but facility upgrades isn't going to be a good selling point to the general public. Major transit upgrades? Major road construction? Things like that will. But that's where the cost of the Olympics becomes untenable.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

One could make the case that this Olympic bid actually weakens the city's position with CSEC in negotiating a new building. Because if this bid goes through (with everyone assuming a new arena will eventually be part of it), CSEC will have the city by the balls, because NOT getting an arena would be a disaster for this bid and for the city.

Well, I would say calling it a disaster is exaggerating it a bit.

Let says the worst case scenario plays out, 2026 comes around, and the city and Flames still haven't struck a deal on a new arena. The city goes ahead with the 'original' plan in the bid, and build a new community arena. The games go on for two weeks, and then afterwards, it's used as a new arena for the community, and U of C hockey teams. Meanwhile, Flames still are playing in the Saddledome.

It doesn't sound that awful in the end. The city could survive with that scenario if they wanted too, although far from ideal for either party. Therefore the city still has some negotiating power, and doesn't have to bend over for the Flames.

I'm of the opinion a replacement for David Bauer arena should happen anyway. So a new community arena should be built there even if (when) the Flames new arena gets built. But I envisioned it as being part of the fieldhouse, rather than it's own building.

[GreenLantern2814]

Since the government won't get our pipelines built, seems the least they can do is be all in on the Olympic funding.