Driving a slow car fast (e.g. Abarth) VS Driving a fast car slow

[nik-]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Haha, I was just laughing at my younger self. I daily a manual M235i and definitely prefer it over the DSG in my wife's old GTI. The facts of my statement are true, but I don't regret driving the inferior version.

The facts of your post were totally correct. No daily driver is getting better performance on their manual than they would on the new autos.

That still doesn't change that driving a manual is so much more enjoyable.

[burn_this_city]

For sure, I had forgotten about that post from 2013 until today, within 5 months I had bought another manual for my daily driver. Unless I lose a leg I think I'll always have at least one manual transmission vehicle.

[Fuzz]

Sliver, their is also something to be said for learning to drive on an imperfect car. A RWD would teach her a few things about winter driving! I learned to shift stick on a tow truck with a clutch requiring half my body weight to push, and a big block 4 speed with a manky shift leaver.


My dad said, "you'll learn on this, and be prepared of anything. Then you can drive the automatic minivan."

[InglewoodFan]

A 2006 or earlier Mini Cooper S is probably slightly better on the reliability front than later generations. The supercharged motor was far more sorted than the turbo that followed. And you can't beat that supercharger whine. Had one (a convertible) for a few years and they are a great slow car to drive fast. On the track at 9/10ths they understeer, but can be pushed pretty hard before they get unsettled. The clutch is a bit fussier than a Honda, but not bad at all.

I keep checking Autotrader for the right one, will probably grab another one eventually.

[afc wimbledon]

The obvious best bet here, assuming you have a garage or a drive way is an old Miata for 5 or 6 grand as a summer car and whatever you use for everyday driving, the Miata stik shift is a thing of joy, its rear wheel and drives like a go kart, the best fun you will ever have driving

[WhiteTiger]

I've always been a 'muscle' guy, and likely always will be. I love the snapback accelleration off the line at the light, and the deep, throaty roar of a V8. I find that the IRS (esp set at sport/track modes) work nicely for the agility I need/want when I'm feeling the need to bomb around corners.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Cars I'm considering:

• Fiat Abarth Cabrio
• Mini Cooper S (possibly convertible)
• VW GTI

Last year I was considering a very similar lineup. I'm somewhat in the same boat again as I'm looking for a fun and cheapish third car (ie under 15k), that can be my winter beater and still be able to carry two car seats. I keep going back and forth from something small and tossable like these, something offroad oriented (older 4Runner/Land Cruiser/FJ), or a larger coupe/sedan with a big engine (early Lexus SC, Infiniti M45, Merc E300).

On the small car front, I remember when I tried the Abarth, I was a little disappointed. It sounded great, but I was hoping it would be a bit more tossable (plus I wasn't thrilled with the seating position). I really wanted to love it, but just didn't.

The GTI was really nice...but almost too nice, bordering on boring. It also sounded kind of meh.

The Fiesta ST was probably the most fun small car. Horribly ugly/busy interior, but I could see it being a great city car.

The GT86 was actually the best drivers car I tried. It actually reminded me of my Cayman. Probably a nice car for a teen too as it's not crazy powerful.

I think a Mazda 2 could be fun in the city. Too bad they don't make a sporty version. If you want to get weird, maybe you can get a Micra Cup Car (although not sure if they are street legal).

[Table 5]

Burn this City, nice to see you came back to your senses.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Last year I was considering a very similar lineup. I'm somewhat in the same boat again as I'm looking for a fun and cheapish third car (ie under 15k), that can be my winter beater and still be able to carry two car seats. I keep going back and forth from something small and tossable like these, something offroad oriented (older 4Runner/Land Cruiser/FJ), or a larger coupe/sedan with a big engine (early Lexus SC, Infiniti M45, Merc E300).

On the small car front, I remember when I tried the Abarth, I was a little disappointed. It sounded great, but I was hoping it would be a bit more tossable (plus I wasn't thrilled with the seating position). I really wanted to love it, but just didn't.

The GTI was really nice...but almost too nice, bordering on boring. It also sounded kind of meh.

The Fiesta ST was probably the most fun small car. Horribly ugly/busy interior, but I could see it being a great city car.

The GT86 was actually the best drivers car I tried. It actually reminded me of my Cayman. Probably a nice car for a teen too as it's not crazy powerful.

I think a Mazda 2 could be fun in the city. Too bad they don't make a sporty version. If you want to get weird, maybe you can get a Micra Cup Car (although not sure if they are street legal).

I did the SUV thing semi-recently (few years ago) with an '09 Pathfinder and only kept it for a half a year. I also bought a Wrangler and only kept it for a weekend. I used to have jacked up trucks and did go to Maclean Creek/Waiprous a lot, but after 35 those crap-riding vehicles lose a lot of appeal as DDs.

The Fiesta ST seems like a lot of fun, but I can't get past the immaturity of the interior. The Abarth and Cooper S have pretty whimsical interiors, but something a little more charming about them IMO.

I hear what some guys are saying about RWD with good tires being a safe vehicle, but I think FWD is safer for my daughter so I'm holding strong on that. GT86 is out for that reason, in addition to being too small for me to fit in. For a young person, I like how under powered they are.

Big-engined sedans are great for your needs. Way more pleasant to drive than an SUV, but I really don't like SUVs now, anyway. A big Expedition or something I could do because they ride so pillowy and I like that, but mid-size body-on-frame SUVs are the worst.

If I can get a smokin' deal on a convertible Cooper S, I think that's my preference. Otherwise, I'll get an Abarth. Yes, the drive won't knock your socks off, but the sound will. I think a teenage girl in that thing would have a blast, too, and I'll have fun as well. You're right about the GTI being a bit too buttoned down for an extraneous fun car and I think that comment helped solidify why I was waffling on what didn't feel right about that one.

[burn_this_city]

My mom had a manual Cooper S Convertible for 3 years, it was a trouble free car and a lot of fun. I drove it from Salmon Arm to Vancouver a couple years ago and it was fun to rip down the Coquihalla with the new 120 speed limits. It's basically a go kart with airbags.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Big-engined sedans are great for your needs. Way more pleasant to drive than an SUV, but I really don't like SUVs now, anyway. A big Expedition or something I could do because they ride so pillowy and I like that, but mid-size body-on-frame SUVs are the worst.

This is why wagons are the best. They are essentially sedans, but better in every conceivable way except for a bit of weight, which is totally offset by the aerodynamics and the convenience of the extra storage. Unfortunately, there aren't very many affordable ones made anymore (you're pretty much looking at Mercedes, Audi, BMW or Volvo) and basically none in a manual.

[woob]

Moar wagons please.

[nik-]

In EU you can still get the RS4 Avant, which would just be hilarious to own. 450hp biturbo wagon? Awesome.

We can't even get the regular Avant over here anymore, just the Allroad with its hideous fender flares.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by nik-

In EU you can still get the RS4 Avant, which would just be hilarious to own. 450hp biturbo wagon? Awesome.

Ahem... you can still buy these.

Spoiler!

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/20...-and-info-news

I know someone with a 2014. It does 0-60 in 3.4 seconds. It's absurd.

We can't even get the regular Avant over here anymore, just the Allroad with its hideous fender flares.

Which is still better than the comparable sedan. I just bought a B7 S4 wagon myself. With coilovers and a catback exhaust, it's pretty close to the RS4 of its day.

[Table 5]

Maybe I need to re-asses the Mini Cooper myself. Much like with Land Rover, Ive always ignored them because of the horribly reliability stories/ratings.

Are there any particular years that tend to be better than others?

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Sliver

The Fiesta ST seems like a lot of fun, but I can't get past the immaturity of the interior. The Abarth and Cooper S have pretty whimsical interiors, but something a little more charming about them IMO.

It's partly why it's a shame that Mazda didn't come out with a sporty equivalent for the 2 (since they are on the same platform). You'd get the same fun car, but it a more mature interior. And I agree about the Abarth/Cooper...I can get behind those interiors. The Fiesta is just a hot mess.

You're right about the GTI being a bit too buttoned down for an extraneous fun car and I think that comment helped solidify why I was waffling on what didn't feel right about that one.

It's a shame that VW doesn't sell the Up! or Polo here, especially in GTI trim. I think those could add back some of the fun factor that's missing in the Golf.

One car you may want to try is the Volvo C30 (especially in R-Design trim). It comes with a stick, and the T5 engine has a really good amount of power. Plus it's a Volvo, so safety and all that for your daughter. Doesn't sound quite as fun as the Abarth, but not many things in this category do.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Ahem... you can still buy these.

I really don't like Mercedes interiors.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by nik-

I really don't like Mercedes interiors.

Really? What about them don't you like? I find them to be of good quality and largely unremarkable styling-wise - basically, I see nothing to get excited about and nothing to object to.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by nik-

I really don't like Mercedes interiors.

Are they finally out of that phase from ~2013 - ???? where they were duct taping iPads to the centre of the console? I can't believe they sold a single car looking like that.

Before that awfulness they were great. My 2012 has a beautiful interior.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Maybe I need to re-asses the Mini Cooper myself. Much like with Land Rover, Ive always ignored them because of the horribly reliability stories/ratings.

Are there any particular years that tend to be better than others?

The one we had was pretty low mileage and only summer driven, the car is still a BMW so I think being judicious about maintenance is key. It did eat the factory summer tires fairly quickly, but they live on a windy road and my mom drives fast.