[Trade] Habs trade Pacioretty to VGK for Tatar, Suzuki, 2nd UPD: signs $7mil x 4 yr with VGK

[Machiavelli]

The winner of this trade is actually Pacioretty

[Phaneufenstein]

Is Montreal actively trying to get smaller?

That's a bad deal when the centerpiece coming back is Tatar.
Patches can and has produced 40 goals in the right situation.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by habernac

Pacioretty isn't 45 years old.

No, but his next contract is going to probably end up being bad (e.g. Jordan Staal) or terrible (e.g. Loui Eriksson). There's an off chance you end up with a Jeff Carter caliber of guy in his mid 30's for 6something, which would be good. Most of these guys fall off though. I'm having trouble thinking of a forward in his early 30s who signed a deal like this that still looks good, whereas I can think of a lot that don't.

[squirtle]

Serious question..why didn't Vegas just re-sign Neal? It's been reported that Neal was willing to re-sign with Vegas for the same dollar amount as Calgary. Their both scoring wingers, not too far apart in age. Max is probably going to sign for 6-7 on a longer term than Neal so there isn't exactly cap savings there either. Vegas also gives up on Nick Suzuki to make this happen.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Phaneufenstein

Is Montreal actively trying to get smaller?

That's a bad deal when the centerpiece coming back is Tatar.
Patches can and has produced 40 goals in the right situation.

Tatar isn't a centerpiece, he's a cap dump third-liner that Montreal can afford to flip for a decent pick or prospect with 50% retained at the trade deadline.

Suzuki has middle-6 with top-6 upside written all over him, and is definitely the centerpiece.

[Geeoff]

I think the worst thing about Bergevin is tells everyone what he's planning to do and things get really personal before he trades a player. Subban, Galchenyuk and Pacioretty were all players we knew Bergevin wanted to get rid of for like a year before he traded them. Imagine if he had just kept them. Habs would actually be a decent team

[David Struch]

What would've been the Flames equivalent to this offer...

Pacioretty to Calgary for Bennett, Välimäki, and 2019 2nd

Or Frolík + different prospect Mangiapane/Dubé/Foo/Kylington/Andersson?

Gaudreau - Monahan - Neal
Pacioretty - Lindholm - Tkachuk
Frolik - Backlund - Ryan
Lazar - Jankowski - Czarnik

[Phaneufenstein]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Tatar isn't a centerpiece, he's a cap dump third-liner that Montreal can afford to flip for a decent pick or prospect with 50% retained at the trade deadline.

Suzuki has middle-6 with top-6 upside written all over him, and is definitely the centerpiece.

If a guy that hasn't played a single game in the NHL is the centerpiece in trade for an established NHL goal scorer, it's a bad deal for the Habs IMO.

[CliffFletcher]

McPhee is so erratic.

He's given the most generous expansion team rules ever, but instead of loading up on the best players available, he makes a bunch of deals for picks. Okay, guess he wants to go the patient draft and developed route.

The team turns out better than anyone hoped, so he trades a bunch of picks for veteran 2nd line winger. So maybe they're in win now mode now.

Let's two-thirds of his second line go for nothing because he doesn't want to pay ageing vets. Sticking with the long-term plan of draft and develop?

Signs a 32-year old to a generous 3-year deal at $6.5 mil per.

Trades the veteran winger acquired with a bunch of picks, along with a top prospect and pick, for a 29 year old winger and will sign him to a long-term deal.

Seriously, wtf is the plan in Vegas?

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by squirtle

Serious question..why didn't Vegas just re-sign Neal? It's been reported that Neal was willing to re-sign with Vegas for the same dollar amount as Calgary. Their both scoring wingers, not too far apart in age. Max is probably going to sign for 6-7 on a longer term than Neal so there isn't exactly cap savings there either. Vegas also gives up on Nick Suzuki to make this happen.

I was thinking the too, it could be that they just do not have a plan or that they prefer Patches. Still its a stiff price to pay for a small differential. Max has better goal scoring record though. Neal has been a bit better playoff performer though.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by David Struch

What would've been the Flames equivalent to this offer...

Pacioretty to Calgary for Bennett, Välimäki, and 2019 2nd

Or Frolík + different prospect Mangiapane/Dubé/Foo/Kylington/Andersson?

Gaudreau - Monahan - Neal
Pacioretty - Lindholm - Tkachuk
Frolik - Backlund - Ryan
Lazar - Jankowski - Czarnik

Don't have the cap room to sign another guy who turned down a 6x6 nor do I think we want him.

I wouldn't give up Bennett, Valimaki and a 2nd for Patches. He's 1 year away from being on the wrong side of 30 looking for a long term deal. Sure a 1-2 year contract, but we'd have to dump 2-3 contracts to fit his new contract and Tkachuk unless you're okay with paying a steep price like the one outlined above for a rental.

Would have to be Frolik + Stone money off the books to even consider it working.

[SuperMatt18]

For the Flames to be involved it would have likely been:

Frolik + Valimaki + 2019 2nd

I'm not sure I like that trade since it's a huge cost to upgrade Frolik to Pacioretty at the cost of Valimaki and a 2nd.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by squirtle

Serious question..why didn't Vegas just re-sign Neal? It's been reported that Neal was willing to re-sign with Vegas for the same dollar amount as Calgary. Their both scoring wingers, not too far apart in age. Max is probably going to sign for 6-7 on a longer term than Neal so there isn't exactly cap savings there either. Vegas also gives up on Nick Suzuki to make this happen.

Vegas didn't want to give Neal term apparently.

Max Pac has had better production by a fair margin over the last 2-3 seasons. Last year being the exception when ppg was similar.

I think two factors make him more desirable than Neal besides the superior production:

Speed: Pac can fly so he's likely to age better than an average skater in Neal.
Two-way: Pac is a plus two way player. Neal isn't.

[VilleN]

I am pretty confused by this move from Vegas’ standpoint:
- acquire lots of picks at expansion to set up franchise for long term success.
- team vastly outperforms expectations, trade for Tatar to bolster team heading into playoffs. Mortgages the future a bit, but somewhat understandable if they didn’t massively overpay.
- Make it to SCF in first season, still have assets in place for long term success. Perfect position to be in.
- Trade away more futures to replace Neal. Team is better for the short term. Future is in question.

Just seems like poor management, but what do I know.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Phaneufenstein

If a guy that hasn't played a single game in the NHL is the centerpiece in trade for an established NHL goal scorer, it's a bad deal for the Habs IMO.

It's a pretty even deal, because it's an established NHL goal scorer for 1 season that's due a raise and does not have a contract extension in place.

It was obvious that Bergevin and Pacioretty were ready to move on from one another, so the fact that the Habs got anything of value rather than him walking is pretty solid.

It looks worse for Vegas when you factor in what they traded last year for Tatar.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by squirtle

Serious question..why didn't Vegas just re-sign Neal? It's been reported that Neal was willing to re-sign with Vegas for the same dollar amount as Calgary. Their both scoring wingers, not too far apart in age. Max is probably going to sign for 6-7 on a longer term than Neal so there isn't exactly cap savings there either. Vegas also gives up on Nick Suzuki to make this happen.

That was my thought as well.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by squirtle

Serious question..why didn't Vegas just re-sign Neal? It's been reported that Neal was willing to re-sign with Vegas for the same dollar amount as Calgary. Their both scoring wingers, not too far apart in age. Max is probably going to sign for 6-7 on a longer term than Neal so there isn't exactly cap savings there either. Vegas also gives up on Nick Suzuki to make this happen.

One theory:
Vegas was thinking they were getting Karlsson and Ryan. Saving cap space and trade assets for that deal.

Probably decided recently that it wasn't going to happen and decided to move on to other plans and try again for Karlsson if he hits UFA.


Still probably not the best managment.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

James Neal outscores Pacioretty this year. Book it.

Neal got replaced with Tuch. Tuch really was close to replacing Neal on the depth chart based on the last half of the season and the playoffs. Paciorittey replaces Perron.

2nd line w/ Pacioretty Statsny and Tuch pretty darn solid.

Haula 29 goals 55 pts 3rd line centre.


It's an arms race in the Pacific:

Gaudreau Monahan, Tkachuk, Neal, Lindholm, Backlund , Ryan

Marchessault, Karlsson, Smith, Stastny, Paciorittey, Tuch, Haula

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by VilleN

I am pretty confused by this move from Vegas’ standpoint:
- acquire lots of picks at expansion to set up franchise for long term success.
- team vastly outperforms expectations, trade for Tatar to bolster team heading into playoffs. Mortgages the future a bit, but somewhat understandable if they didn’t massively overpay.
- Make it to SCF in first season, still have assets in place for long term success. Perfect position to be in.
- Trade away more futures to replace Neal. Team is better for the short term. Future is in question.

Just seems like poor management, but what do I know.

I think this was an expensive trade for VGK, and like it a fair bit better for Montreal. But this idea that the Knights have somehow jeopardized their future is preposterous. Even after this deal they still have seven draft picks in the first two rounds of the next two entry drafts, and twelve in the first three between 2019–21. They are in REALLY good shape moving forward.

[Jiri Hrdina]

So this takes LV out of the running for EK I would assume.
Leaving who left? T-bay?
You just know Ottawa is going to eff that up badly.