Hi, I'm a Mac. And I'm a PC

[FLAMESBURNOIL]

the more people who buy macs the better, because in order to expose the garbage that Apple passes as products its going to take more people using them to start the lynch compaign, kinda like the one against Microsoft...

hackers and security experts watch windows like a hawk, and really dont give a rats ass about OS/X - that should tell you what operating system is the better of the 2.

but when it comes down to it, its all personal preference..

[kevman]

Originally Posted by fanforever1986

STOP TALKING OUT OF YOUR A**!!!

Macs HAVE a scroll wheel...and it rolls 360 degrees...kicking the hell out of the PC mice.

The right click is done by pressing the ctrl key. It's the exact same.

Ugh.

Let's all just take a deep breath and calm down... I know you're a 14 year old EMO kid as previously determined by the fact you use a Mac but let's not get all emotional OK? I would like you to go through my posts and point out all the things I pulled out of my ass.

I see Mac now offers the "mighty mouse" I must apologize this was not available when I weant shopping for my last computer. You also clearly missed the sarcasm in my post which is fair because one it's just a friendly internet debate (or so I thought) and sarcasm is easily lost on the internet and two you are a Mac user so naturally like most niche market owners you are overly defensive of their products. They're also the kind of people that will say "I used a Mac before it was cool".... I have never once said Mac's were a bad computer and I have never once said that PC's were better. On that note untill now I have never once associated Mac's with a certain stereotype.

Through my posts I simply tried to state that Mac's have a long ways to go before they are used in industry. I also stated that PC's are generally cheaper and in my last post I said I found the benchmark results interesting but didn't understand the appeal of running Window's on a Mac (doesn't that defeat the purpose?).

I will apologize for my last remark though because as pointed out I was wrong and Mac's have a "scroll wheel" that as you stated "[kicks] the hell out of the PC mice." I could argue that point because it still doesn't have all the buttons that I use on my mouse but that would be a pointless argument and I wouldn't want to get any more EMO kid's all riled up...

As someone else mentioned, different strokes for different folks...choice is wonderful isn't it?

It's 7 'o clock... Go Flames Go!

[peter12]

Originally Posted by FLAMESBURNOIL

the more people who buy macs the better, because in order to expose the garbage that Apple passes as products its going to take more people using them to start the lynch compaign, kinda like the one against Microsoft...

hackers and security experts watch windows like a hawk, and really dont give a rats ass about OS/X - that should tell you what operating system is the better of the 2.

but when it comes down to it, its all personal preference..

So the system that more hackers choose to exploit is the better operating system... ok.

[ricosuave]

Originally Posted by peter12

The tech clearly said that it would take at least 6 hours of my time. I understood everything she said and I didn't want to go through the long process.

So what if I didn't understand what she said? Does everyone in the world need to be in IT? Obviously, in your world.

well, if it would take 6 hrs to fix, then the tech clearly didnt know what they were talking about, because you can do a repair install with all the patches in about 50 minutes...

and quit being so aggressive, im not an it, but i do try and understand things that I work with instead of having my head in the sand about it

[ricosuave]

Originally Posted by peter12

So the system that more hackers choose to exploit is the better operating system... ok.

not the better one, but as we've already said, part of the reason why windows gets attacked is because more people use it, plain and simple.

macs get viruses too, or didnt you see that part?

[I-Hate-Hulse]

I have a friend that used to think he was a PC whiz. Built his own computers from parts. Thing is, he never did realize that patches nowadays are a fact for all OSes, including OSX (and game consoles for that matter!). The guy ran pirate XP (not even SP1) so he didn't have Windows Update automatically running. Can't recall if he actually ran a firewall router either. Can you say walking petri dish?

Of course he got bombarded by spyware, popups, and whatnot. His genius solution? Reformat every 3 months. Never occurred to him that it was his dumbfoolery that was the problem. He's since bought a Mac, and thinks it's the greatest thing since slice bread (or Country Music and Jesus, both of which he's also found since then).

The Mac's perfect for him, just like it's perfect for others and their needs. Good for him.

Windows PC's don't kill people. People kill Windows PC's.

[fanforever1986]

Yea I may have flipped out a bit before lol, sorry.

In any event...the PC camp...You know who you are...there's something simple you have to understand. The arguments most of you (MOST of you) are making are outdated and wrong. Someone previously mentioned that people who are using this thread as a source of info on computers are learning things that are wrong and/or misleading. Its the equivlant of people arguing for macs using Windows ME (i just threw up in my mouth) as a basis for an argument.

Its obvious both PC's and Macs have various advantages over one another.

Oh and about the 14 year old emo comment...that was funny lol. If your on facebook check out the group I just joined, its hilarious.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Wow, this thead has gotten a lot of posts today.
It's funny to me how polarized people get about their computers.
I guess all it really shows it that both Mac and PC's have great marketing. They've made fanboys and cheerleaders out of millions of users.

[moon]

I am not a IT guy or computer guy. I know how to use the internet, Office and games. That said what exactly is the problems that all the Mac guys keep talking about PC's?

I never have had a problem with my PC and see no reason why I would move to a Mac. Is the internet faster there (can't see how it would be)? Is my typing speed increased by using their word processor? I just don't get it when everyone talks about "all the problems" with PC's.

Edit to add:

Although I like Justin Long as an actor I find that commercial to be so condescending that it definately has turned me off from buying a Mac.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by ricosuave

did i misread, or are you actually saying that macs dont get viruses?

LOL

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/computer-virus/macintosh-faq/

ever stop to think why windows machines get targeted more than macs? um, maybe because the vast majority of people use windows based machines.

oh, and yes, linux gets virus too

That's a great link. Makes me remember how insecure Office 98 and Hypercard where back in System 7.

If an aspiring hacker wants to make a name for themselves, would they not choose to attack a system that is percieved to be the most secure?

I have stopped and thought about the reasons why Microsoft is targeted more than other systems. They are more vulnerable. The reasons why they are more vulnerable have already been posted in a previous post. If the vast majority of webservers use Apache, why are they not targeted more?


Here is some good information from another article that can be found at:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/securit...dows_vs_linux/

This reasoning backfires when one considers that Apache is by far the most popular web server software on the Internet. According to the September 2004 Netcraft web site survey, [1] 68% of web sites run the Apache web server. Only 21% of web sites run Microsoft IIS. If security problems boil down to the simple fact that malicious hackers target the largest installed base, it follows that we should see more worms, viruses, and other malware targeting Apache and the underlying operating systems for Apache than for Windows and IIS. Furthermore, we should see more successful attacks against Apache than against IIS, since the implication of the myth is that the problem is one of numbers, not vulnerabilities

Yet this is precisely the opposite of what we find, historically. IIS has long been the primary target for worms and other attacks, and these attacks have been largely successful. The Code Red worm that exploited a buffer overrun in an IIS service to gain control of the web servers infected some 300,000 servers, and the number of infections only stopped because the worm was deliberately written to stop spreading. Code Red.A had an even faster rate of infection, although it too self-terminated after three weeks. Another worm, IISWorm, had a limited impact only because the worm was badly written, not because IIS successfully protected itself.

..............

Perhaps this is why, according to Netcraft, 47 of the top 50 web sites with the longest running uptime (times between reboots) run Apache. [2] None of the top 50 web sites runs Windows or Microsoft IIS. So if it is true that malicious hackers attack the most numerous software platforms, that raises the question as to why hackers are so successful at breaking into the most popular desktop software and operating system, infect 300,000 IIS servers, but are unable to do similar damage to the most popular web server and its operating systems?

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by moon

I am not a IT guy or computer guy. I know how to use the internet, Office and games. That said what exactly is the problems that all the Mac guys keep talking about PC's?

I never have had a problem with my PC and see no reason why I would move to a Mac. Is the internet faster there (can't see how it would be)? Is my typing speed increased by using their word processor? I just don't get it when everyone talks about "all the problems" with PC's.

The advantages I find, are mostly not having freeze ups or crashes. I was/am used to a lot of those with my PC's. I also find it better for spyware/viruses etc.
and lastly, I'm admittedly a sucker for the fun gimicky stuff Mac is so good at.

I can say 1 thing for sure. It sure don't miss seeing this every day...

[Peanut]

I think the campaign is pretty hilarious. I’m totally Mac illiterate, but I see their point.

[Wookie]

Why has no one commented on the Blonde in the Wii commercial.

I want to kidnap her and keep her in my basement acting all cute and silly like that.

Anyone want to help? We can share her on different weeks?

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by Barnes

If an aspiring hacker wants to make a name for themselves, would they not choose to attack a system that is percieved to be the most secure?

I have stopped and thought about the reasons why Microsoft is targeted more than other systems. They are more vulnerable. The reasons why they are more vulnerable have already been posted in a previous post. If the vast majority of webservers use Apache, why are they not targeted more?

Sorry Barnes, I still don't buy this arguement. OSX has its share of vulnerabilities:

http://downloads.securityfocus.com/d...ght_Report.pdf

(the fun starts on page 4, this was revised Nov 06)

So why haven't these been exploited? Could it be that Joe Hackerski in Eastern Europe wants to inflict the most damage to gain infamy? Do you go after 5% of the market or 90%? For sure, you get the guys that like a challenge and go for bragging rights, but quite frankly, they're going to go after US government computers, not a Mac and someone's Photoshop library. We've also discussed the lack of Mac in Businesses - why go after home based systems?

It's the same logic that applies to "Most Stolen Car" stats. Is the Honda Civic an easier car to steal than a Buick, or does no one really want to steal a Buick? Or is it because there's so many more Civics out there?

I'll concede OSX is "hacked" less, but not necessarily because it's more secure.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Wookie

Why has no one commented on the Blonde in the Wii commercial.

I want to kidnap her and keep her in my basement acting all cute and silly like that.

Anyone want to help? We can share her on different weeks?

You can have her. I'll take the PS3 girl

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

Sorry Barnes, I still don't buy this arguement. OSX has its share of vulnerabilities:

http://downloads.securityfocus.com/d...ght_Report.pdf

(the fun starts on page 4, this was revised Nov 06)

So why haven't these been exploited? Could it be that Joe Hackerski in Eastern Europe wants to inflict the most damage to gain infamy? Do you go after 5% of the market or 90%? For sure, you get the guys that like a challenge and go for bragging rights, but quite frankly, they're going to go after US government computers, not a Mac and someone's Photoshop library. We've also discussed the lack of Mac in Businesses - why go after home based systems?

It's the same logic that applies to "Most Stolen Car" stats. Is the Honda Civic an easier car to steal than a Buick, or does no one really want to steal a Buick?

I'll concede OSX is "hacked" less, but not necessarily because it's more secure.

Why are more ISS servers attacked then Apache ones if they are the most dominate? Joe Hackerski must not pay very much attention. The US Army had to switch to a Mac server for their webpage a few years ago because their windows one kept getting hacked. They don't don't have much use for Photoshop. Well, maybe a little.

I have also heard that the Honda Civic was a pretty easy car to steal as well in the past. I'm no car thief though. The market for Honda/Acura parts is VERY lucrative. Photoshop libraries, not so much.

[arsenal]

If you want your windows pc to be "hijacked" less, don't run as administrator. That will not allow any virus or such to install itself globally on your PC. All it will be able to do is destroy your own files. That's one of the reasons why Macs and *NIX machines seem so secure. It's not that the OS is more secure, it's that your "user" process doesn't have global permissions to wreak havoc on your pc.
Run your Windows PC as a user with out administrator permissions, and you will be fine.

And for those that care, Windows Vista is an amazing OS. I haven't tried OSX or any of the latest *NIX systems. But MS has done alot of good things with Vista. Very good product.

[arsenal]

Originally Posted by Barnes

Why are more ISS servers attacked then Apache ones if they are the most dominate?

Because you have to "know" what you are doing when you set up an Apache server. If you set up IIS, you don't really need to know "anything" about it. MS has made it super easy to set up an IIS server.
Apache is a different beast all together. You have to set permissions, alter config files, read through manual etc. That being said, you can screw up your Apache install too.

I am also going to take a guess that the majority of those Apache servers are shared hosted sites (multiple sites on a single server) of bulk hosting services (GoDaddy, etc). And it is probably alot easier to remake an Apache server from an exisiting config file rather than going through all the steps to set up another IIS server.

That may change with Vista though.

[skins]

Originally Posted by Wookie

Why has no one commented on the Blonde in the Wii commercial.

I want to kidnap her and keep her in my basement acting all cute and silly like that.

Anyone want to help? We can share her on different weeks?

"IT PUTS THE LOTION ON ITS SKIN!"




I posted that link to that video for everyones enjoyment, but no one really seems to be enjoying it. (minus wookie)

[Devils'Advocate]

I wrote this over of the Devils forum. Most of the issues have already been brought up:

I have a Mac at home and and a PC at work. Mostly because I do video editing at home and Apples "are better for creative stuff".

Points against the Mac:
#1 - The games suck. If there was a new game that you want to play - it's not available. And most likely will never be available. If you are lucky, it will only take 2 or 3 years for a game to be ported. The only company that reliably releases their software for PC and MACs at the same time is Blizzard. And IMHO, their last good game was Starcraft.
#2 - No, the operating system rarely, if ever, crashes. But all the applications do. And they do weird freaky things that you don't really want them to do. Finding half-way reliable software out there - even in terms of a simple web browser - is incredibly hard. I've settled on Firefox and it crashes once a day.
#3 - Limited expandability. Unless you are buying the ultra-small-car-expensive "Mac Pro", the iMac or mac-mini are about as good as they get. You want to upgrade the memory, you are best off dropping the mac-mini in the garbage and buying a new one.
#4 - Apple releases new versions of OS X every 6 months. They are already running out of cats. And any new software requires you to upgrade. I want to update to the latest version of Quicktime. It tells me to upgrade my operating system. I don't want to. I like my OS just the way it is thank you very much.
#5 - And probably the most important - COST. You can get a much, much faster machine for half the price. You want something that will blow your socks off with how fast it loads up Word, don't buy a Mac.

Points for the Mac:
#1 - Quality. Apple is consistently rated as one of the top technology providers in terms of reliability of hardware. Anecdotally, I've had my G4 since 1999 and I haven't had to replace a single part. Well, other than replacing that stupid mouse and keyboard on the first day.
#2 - Ease of set-up. I like the fact that I can take any piece of USB hardware and toss the CD that came with it in the trash. While Windows people are rushing off to web sites for the latest drivers for their printer, camera or scanner, I'm printing pictures I just scanned or DLed.
#3 - Ease of use. I've whipped up a quality wedding DVD in less than 3 hours. I didn't even need a manual. Everything on the Mac is quite intuitive and I don't know how 3rd party vendors for PCs manage to make even the simplest software into convoluted bloatware.
#4 - The Cult of Mac. Mac users tend be a different breed; they start identifying themselves by the computer they use. For example, I was going to make my avatar to the apple with the bite out of it. While this is creepy at first, you find that people are very, very willing to help you out. There are lots of Mac forums with huge userbases that have been able to solve virtually any problem I have had with my Mac.
#5 - Cutting edge. Apple is always one step ahead of PCs, trying things first before they catch on. I had a Mac with firewire ports before firewire hardware became popular. They were the first with affordable DVD authoring.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

I love my Mac and most likely will buy another (like I said, my current Mac was purchased *7* years ago, so I'm well overdue for an upgrade).

As for the ad campaign, I've had dozens of PC users come up and discuss them with me (as I am somehow know as "The Mac Guy" at work... it isn't just Mac users that pigeonhole themselves into the Cult of Mac - mention ONCE at work that you have a Mac and suddenly you *are* the guru of all things Apple; as if I am a spokesman for the company). The fact that people who don't typically give a second thought to Apple are talking about them must be what the company is aiming for. I hear sales are up which is probably why they doubled the number of ads, but other analysts think that maybe people happy with their iPods gave Apple their computer business as well.