Chrismas trees removed in Sea-Tac airport

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by TheyCallMeBruce

I'm pointing out the futility that is involved in including everyone. If I run a business and someone complained that they have an issue with my tree, instead of wasting time doing research on every minorities preference, I would rather just take it down. It has nothing to do with my displeasure toward other minority groups. Why? Honestly, I don't have time for this, and I would rather not dedicated my resources to something this trivial.

Ok....so just trying to understand your position here. Not sure what kind of business you would be running but lets say it is a regular business in Calgary. You're telling me that you would take down your Christmas Tree when say......about 50% of your customers celebrate Christmas but only 1% of your customers complained. If I was the business owner I would rather alienate the 1% of my customers instead of 50%

[TheyCallMeBruce]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Ok....so just trying to understand your position here. Not sure what kind of business you would be running but lets say it is a regular business in Calgary. You're telling me that you would take down your Christmas Tree when say......about 50% of your customers celebrate Christmas but only 1% of your customers complained. If I was the business owner I would rather alienate the 1% of my customers instead of 50%

No, I am just trying to see it the way the airport sees it. I suppose I should have been more clear on that.

I can see where they are coming from...that's the gist of it.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

So is suing because someone doesn't have their decorations up either. Protecting minorities civil rights is key to the democratic process.....so is allowing the majority of ones citizens to practice their beliefs without discrimination of the minority.

Agreed

So you want the majority of Canadians to leave their own country because the minority doesn't agree with their beliefs???? Nice....real nice.

Nope,
Do you want the minority of Canadians to leave their own country because the majority won't protect their rights?

I want people to respect each others rights. That means people have X-mas trees and whatever else.
But if the majority does something that isn't respecting the rights of minorities, then the minorities must be protected and not told to leave.

I'm saying that if you can't respect minority rights AND majority rights, then this country isn't designed for you.
Feel free to stay, but understand that the rights of all citizens will be protected in Canada, not just the majority.

[V]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

Do what you want in your home or on your fromt lawn, but we are talking about PUBLIC space - the lobby of City Hall for example. I cannot just waltz into City Hall and put a chanukiah on the security desk, nor should I have to. City Hall took taxpayers (yours and Mine) money to the bay, bought decorations (that to me have a Christmas theme) and put them up. They should then have to take taxpayers money to Walmart, by a chanukiah (or a picture of one) and put it up. And, yes, they should then work their way down the list of ethnicities.

I still don't understand why City Hall would have to spend that extra money.

Is there a law in place that forces City Hall to keep all religious and ethnic holidays in mind when decorating? I'm not aware of one.

[Bleeding Red]

Originally Posted by Crazy Flamer

Oh come on...So does that mean that Jews take offense to everyone named Christine or Christopher? Just because it has the pretext "Christ" does not mean its automaticaly religious.

You are missing the 'offense'.

The offense is not that there IS a Christmas/holiday/seasonal/winter solstic tree on display.

The concern is that there is NOT a chanukiah on display as well. The offense is that they are unwilling to do anything reasonable about it.

(Yet,notice that only Christians name their kids Christine or Christopher? If there was absolutly no religious context to it where are all the Muslim and Jewish kids with those names? Of note- there is a theory that Christopher Colombus was Jewish, but changed his name to 'Christopher' to avoid the inquisition.)

[Bleeding Red]

Originally Posted by Dominicwasalreadytaken

I still don't understand why City Hall would have to spend that extra money.

Is there a law in place that forces City Hall to keep all religious and ethnic holidays in mind when decorating? I'm not aware of one.

I do not understand why City Hall would have to spend my tax dollars on frivolus winter solstice holiday decorations (which clearly look to me like Christmas trees - with or with-out the religious conotation).

Is there a law in place that forces city hall to decorate for the winter solstice holiday?

This is a place that either needs to encompass everyone or stay secular. (shades of the argument about what book to use to be sworn in on)

At the ON legislature a 10 foot tall chanukiah will be lit by the priemer (at I am sure little to cost to the taxpayer). It will be a few feet away from the Christmas tree they lit a few days ago. Comprimise.

[transplant99]

Comprimise.

Agreed.

let the majority celebrate what they want, they way they have for hundreds of years...."public" place or not.

[V]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

I do not understand why City Hall would have to spend my tax dollars on frivolus winter solstice holiday decorations (which clearly look to me like Christmas trees - with or with-out the religious conotation).

Is there a law in place that forces city hall to decorate for the winter solstice holiday?

This is a place that either needs to encompass everyone or stay secular.

They don't have to spend frivolous dollars on Christmas decorations. But the fact that they do choose to waste money on this does not in turn force them to waste money on other decorations. I hate a lot of things that the government wastes money on, but that does not in turn lead me to sue the government if they don't waste money on something that's important to me. The very idea is ridiculous.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

But it's not your neighbour, it is a publically funded building, that I assume is spending public money on these decorations.

Try living around a bunch of southern babtists, and tell me that Christmas is not a Christian holiday. Peoples' offices in my building are filled with decorations asking us to celebrate Christ's birth, celebrate He who died for my sins/etc. Throw in our cafeteria workers who always like to sing a prayer to me, or remind me how blessed we should all feel at this time or year, etc.

It can get to be a little much, and I could understand someone wanting people to keep their celebrations to themselves a little more.

I think you need Reaper's solution!!

[eazyduzzit]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Ahhh....she is working in a predominantly Christian country (80% of the population is Christian)....she needs to get use to it. She don't like it....go work or live in a different country.

These are exacly my thoughts.

--------------

When well over 50% of the population in both Canada and the US identify as Christian, it's only right to have those deocrations up. Once you start making concessions to other religions, it will simply become one big mess that will more than likely lead to no decorations at all.

A few people have said make concessions (Jewish deocrations etc) "within reason", but the fact of the matter is that just isn't the mentality groups of people will have when different types of decorations are put up.

Until there is a substantial number of another minority, there should only be 1 type of deocration up around this time of year.

Not to mention, lots of people consider Christmas to be time to spend with family/friends and not so much of Religion anyway.

[Red]

A lot of 7 elevens have some indian/muslim religeous displays out, why is nobody complaining about that? Why are the Christians the only religion that gets told not to offend others?

Why are muslims allowed to wear turbans in the police force when everyone knows how simbolic that uniform is? Why are Sikhs allowed to ignore the helmet laws?

People have no respect for tradition. That's really sad, the way this is going my grandkids will not be able to celebrate Christmas like we have. Really sad.

How long before all animal cartoons get banned like they were in one of the muslim? countries due to their religion?

It's a really sad world we live in.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Red

Why are muslims allowed to wear turbans in the police force when everyone knows how simbolic that uniform is? Why are Sikhs allowed to ignore the helmet laws?

Your ignorance is mind blowing. Those are sikhs. Very few muslims actually wear turbans.

It's a really sad world we live in.

Yes, yes it is.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Your ignorance is mind blowing. Those are sikhs. Very few muslims actually wear turbans.

Yes, yes it is.

Whatever, the point is still valid.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Red

Whatever, the point is still valid.

yeah, whatever.
Don't learn anything about the topic you're discussing, just make comments without correct information.

What point is valid? That people have no respect for tradition?

Take a look at you own post. People should respect Christian traditions, but you have a problem with Sikh's wearing turbans in the police force?

Where's your respect for Sikh traditions?

I guess the point is valid, and you're evidence of your own complaint.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

yeah, whatever.
Don't learn anything about the topic you're discussing, just make comments without correct information.

What point is valid? That people have no respect for tradition?

Take a look at you own post. People should respect Christian traditions, but you have a problem with Sikh's wearing turbans in the police force?

Where's your respect for Sikh traditions?

I guess the point is valid, and you're evidence of your own complaint.

What Sikh tradition in the RCMP are you talking about?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Red

People have no respect for tradition. That's really sad, the way this is going my grandkids will not be able to celebrate Christmas like we have. Really sad.

Do you celebrate Christmas like your grandparents did? I know I don't. Things change, and it wasn't some religion from across the pond that dictated that I don't go to church and have all sorts of Jesus talk at Christmas time like my grandparents did.

Your grandkids will be able to do whatever they want for Christmas. Christmas is never going to be outlawed.

Originally Posted by Red

How long before all animal cartoons get banned like they were in one of the muslim? countries due to their religion?

I have no idea what you are talking about, but cartoons with animals in them will never be banned in North America.

I think it's pretty stupid that they took the damn tree down as well, but it's one airport in a different country. It's not like we are being "Islamicized" or anything else.

Re: the "traditional uniform" in the RCMP -- if tradition is so important, why don't they wear the red serge and ride horses?

[Crazy Flamer]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

You are missing the 'offense'.

The offense is not that there IS a Christmas/holiday/seasonal/winter solstic tree on display.

The concern is that there is NOT a chanukiah on display as well. The offense is that they are unwilling to do anything reasonable about it.

(Yet,notice that only Christians name their kids Christine or Christopher? If there was absolutly no religious context to it where are all the Muslim and Jewish kids with those names? Of note- there is a theory that Christopher Colombus was Jewish, but changed his name to 'Christopher' to avoid the inquisition.)

So what do you sugest we do? Change the name of Christmass to "Winter Festival?" You have to realize that plenty of people who are non christians celebrate Christmas every year and put up Christmas trees. There's nothing religious about it.

[Red]

Re: the "traditional uniform" in the RCMP -- if tradition is so important, why don't they wear the red serge and ride horses?

but they do, just not on any day. You're kind of splitting hairs here, it's the principal of it all. If you can't wear a hairnet (due to whatever reason) don't get a job at MacDonalds. It's rather simple, do some homework before getting in to an enviroment that offends you or conflicts with your religious beliefs. Why does everyone have to adjust to you? You CHOSE TO BE HERE.

[Ayrahb]

I don't have too much time to participate in this discussion so here are some of the thoughts that popped into my head while reading the topic:

-Winsor said it right: if this rabbi were a Muslim person we all know what reaction we would be getting. Heck, we get thrown of planes for saying Allah, Saddam and America in the same conversation.

-According to the 2001 Census (and my unscientific interpretation of it) 77% of Canadians are some sort of Christians. I would dare say that mostly Catholics and the Protestant flavors are consistently of the pine tree Christmas variety.

-FlamesAddiction, you have an emblem of a Croatian hockey club as your avatar. Do you have any thoughts on Christmas celebration in Croatia?

-On Muslims: We (mostly) do not wear turbans. Ramadan is a month of fasting and not a holiday in the Christmas sense. There are two Eid (pronounced eed) holidays and the next one is on December 31. This Eid commemorates the willingness of Abraham to sacrifice Ishmael for God. Muslim calendar moves 10 or so days backwards every year. Muslims believe in Jesus, but do not celebrate his birthday.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Red

but they do, just not on any day. You're kind of splitting hairs here, it's the principal of it all. If you can't wear a hairnet (due to whatever reason) don't get a job at MacDonalds. It's rather simple, do some homework before getting in to an enviroment that offends you or conflicts with your religious beliefs.

I'm not splitting hairs, I'm pointing out the obvious. The RCMP uniform (including the hat) has been drastically changed and it had nothing to do with wearing a turban. Where is the outrage over that?

Originally Posted by Red

Why does everyone have to adjust to you?

Nobody has to adjust for anything. What the hell do you or I care if an RCMP officer is wearing a turban instead of a big hat? What's the difference? Where is the harm? I don't have to wear a turban. The other officers don't have to wear a turban. You and I haven't adjusted to a damn thing other than, for me at least, seeing an RCMP officer wearing a turban once in my life. It was a pretty painless adjustment - he had a turban on. Case closed.

Originally Posted by Red

You CHOSE TO BE HERE.

That's not an automatic by any stretch. A lot of people wearing turbans were born here. They are just as Canadian as anyone else.

I understand the whole "if you can't wear a hairnet..." argument and I agree with it, but that's a separate issue. Having a turban on your head as opposed to a big stiff hat doesn't take away from one's ability to be a cop. Refusing to wear a hairnet would actually have an impact on your ability to sling greasy burgers and serve up french fries without a clump of hair for a condiment.