Pronman: Flames with the 29th ranked farm system

[SeanCharles]

I think our defensive pipeline is being undervalued here.

I agree our forward prospects leave a lot to be desired, and goaltending is difficult to project, but I'm pretty happy with what we have waiting in the wings on the backend.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

I think our defensive pipeline is being undervalued here.

I agree our forward prospects leave a lot to be desired, and goaltending is difficult to project, but I'm pretty happy with what we have waiting in the wings on the backend.

I think this definition ...

Very good prospect: Projects as a top-six forward/top-four defenseman/starting goaltender.

could certainly suggest that. Elite prospect as a top pairing defenseman is certainly up for debate, but I would think Valimaki is projected as a top four and is in the category below.

[EVERLAST]

I’m thinking in 3-5 years Hakan Loob will have found some players for us that charge things for Stockton and Calgary.

We’re doing other things too that are different from the past in scouting that will make a difference .

These write ups and evaluations can’t be taken even remotely serious all the time.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Yeah the NHL roster is devoid of young talent

Distressing, isn't it?

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Don’t really understand your statement that the Flames have nothing to show.

They have Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, Lindholm, Hanifin, Hamonic, Brodie, Backlund, Smith, etc to show from draft picks and graduations.

Originally Posted by Bingo

Yeah the NHL roster is devoid of young talent

I see... and collecting these players (or "young talent" as Bingo so sarcastically put it) is the purpose is it? At the end of the season the championship is determined by some self-determined evaluation of the talent on roster? The Flames in fact do have little to show in terms of positive team performance.

We've graduated young players, we've traded futures for 'now' pieces... the Flames have done everything that good teams are supposed to do... but the result hasn't been a good team. Not yet anyways, not as determined by their position in the standings and performance in the post-season.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Parallex

I see... and collecting these players (or "young talent" as Bingo so sarcastically put it) is the purpose is it? At the end of the season the championship is determined by some self-determined evaluation of the talent on roster? The Flames in fact do have little to show in terms of positive team performance.

We've graduated young players, we've traded futures for 'now' pieces... the Flames have done everything that good teams are supposed to do... but the result hasn't been a good team. Not yet anyways, not as determined by their position in the standings and performance in the post-season.

the "Now" pieces are largely under the age of 25 though.

You don't see a future in that? Results are very important, but not singular. If you think you have the pieces and you're building something you can't ditch the whole program because your team led the league in plummeting year over year shooting percentage.

But the bottom line is the prospect base has been either graduated or compromised by trading picks sure, but the moves have largely brought in young core pieces that are hardly gunshots into the night without a target.

[Strange Brew]

They don't give a trophy for having great prospects.

But there's also no trophy for having great young players. I am not going to rip apart a poster who wants to point to the scoreboard as the ultimate measure of success.

What sets the Flames apart from some of those other teams at the bottom of the rankings is their lack of success at the NHL level. No one is saying it won't come. Nor is anyone saying that it should be blown up.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

They don't give a trophy for having great prospects.

But there's also no trophy for having great young players. I am not going to rip apart a poster who wants to point to the scoreboard as the ultimate measure of success.

What sets the Flames apart from some of those other teams at the bottom of the rankings is their lack of success at the NHL level. No one is saying it won't come. Nor is anyone saying that it should be blown up.

If the Flames miss the playoffs again does that start the 'blow it up' conversation?

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

No one is saying it won't come. Nor is anyone saying that it should be blown up.

Not in this thread, maybe. I have seen such remarks elsewhere on the forum, and some of them from the same posters who are running down the team here.

[GioforPM]

If Pronman ranks Kylington ahead of Valimaki, Andersson and Dube I can’t give him much credence.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Bingo

That's a pretty sweeping conclusion and condemnation.

Any time you can add an asset that looks ready to "pop" you do it.

a great addition.... doesn't change that Boston didn't have or make room for him. He did jump to the top of the Flames prospect list... jumping Mangiapane and Foo.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

a great addition.... doesn't change that Boston didn't have or make room for him.

Or he didn't want to stay. I know new ideas are hard for you sometimes, but hockey players are actual human beings and sometimes make choices of their own.

Is Fox a bad prospect in Carolina because the Flames didn't have or make room for him?

He did jump to the top of the Flames prospect list... jumping Mangiapane and Foo.

According to what list?

[PegCityFlamesFan]

The Flames are a lot like the Jets. Lots of the young players are playing for the team or making the transition. I don't get the 28th ranking with guys like Appleton, Versalainen, Lemieux, Niku primed to make the jump but that's just me. I'd much rather have my young players in the league than a decent cupboard that doesn't amount to much like Buffalo has for seemingly the past decade and the Oilers since what 2006?

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Pronman tends to rank players that he thinks that are dynamic (e.g. flashy) really high.

He has been high on Kylington for a very long time. So not really surprised he has Kylington as the top guy.

I don't really value this guy's rankings or analysis whatsoever. It's one guy trying to cover all the prospects in the league. Its very difficult for a stable of professional scouts to do this for a team with accuracy (aka look at what Vegas did in finding gems like Karlson, Tuch etc). And yet, Corey Pronman's analysis and rankings are suppose to be what? I'd guess just noise around the consensus/informed view. It might be mildly entertaining to see these lists, but I doubt its of much value.

[FlamesAddiction]

While I agree that on paper, our prospect pool isn't amazing, these types on rankings should be taken with a grain of salt.

It's hard to be an expert on one teams prospects, let alone all 31. And I am sure Pronman would even agree that predicting prospect development is extremely difficult and you can always expect to be wrong quite often.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by PegCityFlamesFan

The Flames are a lot like the Jets. Lots of the young players are playing for the team or making the transition. I don't get the 28th ranking with guys like Appleton, Versalainen, Lemieux, Niku primed to make the jump but that's just me. I'd much rather have my young players in the league than a decent cupboard that doesn't amount to much like Buffalo has for seemingly the past decade and the Oilers since what 2006?

No one cares about the stupid Jets.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

a great addition.... doesn't change that Boston didn't have or make room for him. He did jump to the top of the Flames prospect list... jumping Mangiapane and Foo.

Is there are prospect list anywhere that includes Czarnik? As far as I can tell you are the only person on the entire internet who has him designated as such.

[The Boy Wonder]

We are clearly in a window. The group of players who we've graduated to the team now are largely the group who are going to either get us tehre or not.

There are a couple more guys on the farm who could still contribute in the next few years of this window but the importance of having the best farm system isn't huge for the flames at the moment.

We have about 3-4 years now to win something and gotta go all in with most of the pieces we have and a HUGE influx from the farm isn't needed

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

a great addition.... doesn't change that Boston didn't have or make room for him. He did jump to the top of the Flames prospect list... jumping Mangiapane and Foo.

That’s just silly.

If he works out then great. But an undersized forward that hasn’t made it as of yet doesn’t leap frog similar players that are younger not players that project higher up the roster.


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[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Parallex

I see... and collecting these players (or "young talent" as Bingo so sarcastically put it) is the purpose is it? At the end of the season the championship is determined by some self-determined evaluation of the talent on roster? The Flames in fact do have little to show in terms of positive team performance.

We've graduated young players, we've traded futures for 'now' pieces... the Flames have done everything that good teams are supposed to do... but the result hasn't been a good team. Not yet anyways, not as determined by their position in the standings and performance in the post-season.

Collecting young talent is how you rebuild a team. Sounds like you're angry or frustrated that the rebuild hasn't gone faster. It's gone about as fast as they ever do IMO unless you get lucky and win the #1 or #2 pick in the right year. Treliving has done a fantastic job of supplementing the young talent we had prior to his taking over the team.

I mean the earliest we were supposed to start contending was last year. Obviously the year didn't go like many hoped or thought. But since then we've acquired two more potentially core pieces in Lindholm/Hanifin. Our younger players got a year more experience.

At this point the rebuild is over. Yeah now is the time for results. Are you pessimistic about the team going forward? Because I'm not. The Flames have what I'd consider a top 5 collection of young talent in the NHL. This core should be able to contend in the playoffs and I'd expect they will going forward. I think coaching hurt us last year more than some admit.

Not really sure where you are coming from on this. The Flames have a fantastic collection of young talent, the rebuild was quite successful on that front. Yeah they need to get results now, we are all agreed on that. You seem pissy that people are optimistic about the young talent on the Flames even though we didn't make the playoffs last year? I really don't understand what you're getting at and why you're using the tone you do.