I thought I would get back into some military history stuff. I've always been really fascinated with the concept of super weapons. Super weapons have existed from the time that the Greeks mounted flame throwers on their ships, or created siege towers 100's of feet tall.
Its always the hope that these wonder weapons would change the course of not only the world but of the nature of war itself. For Germany in the end their Wonderwaffe department was desperate to find the keys to victory as Germany collapsed around them.
So I thought it would be interesting to look at some of the super weapons real and imagined that threatened or could have threatened the balance of power.
To be honest, I'm also doing this to keep my mind occupied as lately its been my worst enemy.
So I'm going to take my time, and look at superweapons.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
The Following User Says Thank You to CaptainCrunch For This Useful Post:
Ok, maybe this weapon is in response to Nazi's having unusually small penis'. Its the only reason why the German's would create this monster of modern artillery. This massive gun was designed as a railway bound seige gun in response to the French Maginot line. weighing in at 1360 tonnes, it could fire a 7 tonne round over 26 miles. It was considered a modern marvel of engineering and was actually used by the German's at the battle of Sevastpol.
The crew requirements were massive as the gun required 2500 men to lay the track for it, and then a further 250 men to assemble and operate it.
The gun had a firing rate of 1 round every 45 minutes or 12 rounds a day.
During its career, this gun fired a total of 48 rounds and was fairly successful in knocking out several Soviet fortresses and underground ammunition storage units.
The gun was disassembled and moved to Lenigrad and was ready to operate, however the Siege of Lennigrad was cancelled and the gun was eventually bought back to Germany where it was destroyed to prevent it from falling into Russian hands. In total two of these guns were built, the second one was called Dora. The manufacturer built the first one for free, but the second gun Dora cost the Reich $7 million Reichsmarks or $94 million dollars US today roughly.
These weren't the only German super guns.
The Germans were building the Langer Gustav which was designed to fire rocket powered projectiles over 100 miles. They were also building the self propelled Landkruezer p.1500 monster which would have mounted a pair of 150 mm howitzer which would propel 7 tonne shells over 25 miles.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to CaptainCrunch For This Useful Post:
You could always go down the HAARP rabbit hole, that's always fun for some laughs.
If (when?) our planet experiences another nuclear bomb, I hope I'm directly under that ####ing thing because it's nuclear winter and/or radiation sickness that scares the bajeesus out of me.
You could always go down the HAARP rabbit hole, that's always fun for some laughs.
If (when?) our planet experiences another nuclear bomb, I hope I'm directly under that ####ing thing because it's nuclear winter and/or radiation sickness that scares the bajeesus out of me.
If there's a nuclear exchange it won't matter if you're under the bomb or hundreds of miles away, there will be nowhere to hide.
Just reading up on the German Wonderwaffe, they were designing a space station that had a massive parabolic mirror that could focus the suns rays on the city.
I think the next one I do will either involve a tank super weapon or the Type 21 sub.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Well, say India and Pakistan lost their minds and bombed the bondoozle out of each other. We wouldn't see the direct effects but experience the side effects, and that scares me more than the bomb itself.
All I can think about when it comes to that parabolic mirror are a) that dummy that left one in the trunk of his car, or b) Futurama for some reason.
Also, remember this story? That was fun times. For a while.
"The 38 cm calibre gun is one of the largest in the world; the barrel alone weighs 110 tons, measures almost 20 m in length and has a range of up to 55 km (34 miles)."
The Kristiansand Kanonmuseum was always a super fun place to go visit with the kids.
__________________
Dealing with Everything from Dead Sea Scrolls to Red C Trolls
Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
The gun had a firing rate of 1 round every 45 minutes or 12 rounds a day.
I'm curious as to why this may be, and admit that I don't know a great lot about post-firing projectile weapons. Did it need to be cleaned? Have parts re-installed? Blow itself backwards a lot of track and have to trundle back up to range again? Was it simply the amount of time it took to move a 7 tonne 'bullet' from storage to chamber?
Last edited by WhiteTiger; 08-05-2018 at 05:20 PM.
The German's needed to close the ocean and stop the flow of supplies into Europe from North America. The goal of the German Navy and particularly its U Boats was to attack and destroy convoy shipping.
Up until 1942, the German U Boat flotilla had a good war, the Type VII was the most common submarine in service with a flotilla of several hundred boats. But the war turned on Doenitz, the advance of Sonar technology, the tactical change to fast convoys, and the breaking of German's Enigma code turned the tied on Germany and started to lead to massive losses that meant that nearly half of the German Sailors who went to sea, stayed at sea..
The type VII boat was rapidly becoming obsolete. Because of its hull shape it was detectable by enemy sonar, it was also tremendously slow submerged and had a limited battery charge. Basically at 5 knots underwater a type VII would lose battery power in a day, at 2 knots it would lose battery power in two weeks, so the standard alliance tactic was unpredictable zig zags as well high speed freighters and escorts and long range aerial recon.
The Kreigsmarine was slowly being bled to death.
Doenitz needed a new solution, a long range submarine with the ability to attack Convoys in North American waters, they needed to be fast and quiet and had long endurance.
Out of this the German's created the Type XXI, the electroboot, the father of the modern nuclear submarine.
Whereas submarine tactics up until this point would be to have submarines run on the surface to keep their batteries charged and then submerge to either evade the enemy or duck inside a convoy to torpedo freighters, the XXI was designed to primarily operate under water. If properly developed and manufactured in enough numbers early enough, the German's may have been able to close the sea lanes.
The Type XXI was completely different from the type VII's and type IXs. Its hull shape was knife shaped like the modern SSN with no rails, bulges or holes which would create reduce noise due to water flow.
The type VII notice the railings and deck attachments and the outrigger diesel tanks that caused noise
The type XXI, there are no rails and very few deck riggings our outriders.
The Type XI had three times the batteries of the Type VII which allowed it to stay submerged for 5 days at 5 knots, More importantly the XXI had a maximum submerged speed of 18 knots where as the VII had a maximum submerged speed of 7 knots. Due to the improved diesel engines the Type XXI could snorkel and recharge in 5 hours where as the type VII would take a full day to recharge.
Weapons wise, the Type VII had 4 bow torpedo's and one in the stern, it could carry 14 torpedoes, and also had a 8 mm deck gun. The type XXI had 6 bow tubes and no stern tubes, and while it didn't have a deck gun, it had 2 heavy anti aircraft guns in its conning tower. The type XXI carried 23 torpedoes.
Unfortunately for German's they ran out of time and only 4 type XXI were completed and only two were deployed. At the end of the war the Soviets, American's, British and French all claimed type XXI and used them in their sub development programs. When you look at Russian Submarines, the Whiskey, Zulu and the well known Romeo submarines borrowed heavily from the type XXI. The American borrowed heavily from its design when it built the USS Nautilus, the Worlds first nuclear submarine.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
Last edited by CaptainCrunch; 08-05-2018 at 05:27 PM.
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to CaptainCrunch For This Useful Post:
I'm curious as to why this may be, and admit that I don't know a great lot about post-firing projectile weapons. Did it need to be cleaned? Have parts re-installed? Blow itself backwards a lot of track and have to trundle back up to range again? Was it simply the amount of time it took to move a 7 tonne 'bullet' from storage to chamber?
A combination of the above. loading a 7 ton shell wasn't an easy job for the crew. They also had to run through a extensive check list that also included the barrel. In fact the barrel was only good for a couple of hundred rounds and it did have to be replaced. From what I understand after every shot they did have to clean the barrel and the firing mechanism. There was a reason why the gun came with two flack cannons to drive off aircraft.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
The Following User Says Thank You to CaptainCrunch For This Useful Post:
Location: A simple man leading a complicated life....
Exp:
The Horten Ho 229 - Nazi Stealth Bomber
Quote:
The Horten Ho 229 is generally known by a few unique names. The plane was called the H.IX, by the Horten Brothers. The identity Ho 229 had been given to the plane by the German Ministry of Aviation. Sometimes, it was also called the Gotha Go 229, because Gothaer Waggonfabrik was the name of the German maker who manufactured the plane.
This plane has been recently called “Hitler’s Stealth fighter”, despite the fact that the plane’s stealth capacities may have been accidental. As per William Green, creator of “Warplanes of the Third Reich,” the Ho 229 was the principal “flying wing” air ship with a jet engine.
It was the primary plane with elements in its design which can be alluded to as stealth innovation, to obstruct the ability of radar to identify the plane.
Quote:
It looked fundamentally the same as the cutting edge American B-2 Bomber. Goring was very much inspired with the plan and transferred it from the Hortens to the German aviation organization Gothaer Waggonfabrik.
At Gothaer, the plan experienced a few noteworthy upgrades. The outcome was a jet powered model, the H.IX V2, which was first flown on 2nd February, 1945.
Quote:
Expelled from the venture, the Horten Brothers were working with the Horten H.XVIII, which was also known as the Amerika Bomber. The Horten H.XVIII was just an effort to satisfy the Germans wishes to manufacture an aircraft that could reach the United States. After a few more experimental flights, the Ho 229 was added to the German Jäger-Notprogramm, or Emergency Fighter Program, on 12th March, 1945.
Quote:
Engineers at Northrop needed to see whether the German aircraft could really be resistant to radar. Northrop tried the non-flying reproduction at its classified radar testing office in Tejon, California. During the testing, the frequencies utilized by British radar offices toward the end of the war were directed towards the reproduction. Tom Dobrenz, a Northrop Grumman stealth master, said with regards to the H.IX, “This design gave them just about a 20% reduction in radar range detection over a conventional fighter of the day.”
When combined with the speed of the H.IX, after being picked up by British Homeland Defense radar, the Royal Air Force would have had only 8 minutes from the time of detecting the airplane before it approached England, rather than the standard 19 minutes.
While the design turned out to be stealthy, it has been contended that it was not intended to be stealthy. There is no written proof in Germany that the design was expected to be what would later be recognized as stealth innovation.
In an article composed by Reimar Horten, broadcast in the May 1950 version of the Argentine aviation magazine Revista Nacional de Aeronautica, Reimar composed, “…with the advent of radar, wood constructions, already considered antique, turned into something modern again. As the reflection of electric waves on metallic surfaces is good, such will be the image on the radar screen; on the contrary, on wood surfaces, that reflection is little, these resulting barely visible on the radar.”
In the late 1970s and beginning of the 1980s, data started to break to the media that the United States was doing some important work on airplanes with stealth innovation.
I have very little knowledge of military weapons, but I'd be pretty interested to hear what you think about the weapons that Russia was showing off about not so long ago in those videos that gathered so much press. I remember something like a super ICBM that could navigate around defense systems, a super nuclear torpedo or some such thing and a laser cannon.
__________________
"If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out?"
Location: A simple man leading a complicated life....
Exp:
Japanese Submarine I-400 Class Aircraft Carriers of WW2
Quote:
Did you know that the Japanese developed a submarine aircraft carrier during World War II? That's right you are reading that correctly. If you did, congratulations you are a military history aficionado. If not, don't despair let us introduce you to I-400 class submarine.
The idea was to provide a ship with the potential to raid the American coastline during the war. With a fleet of 18 planned they were the brainchild of none another that Admiral Yamamoto. The ebb and flow of war meant the fleet was never completed.
Quote:
Each of these impressive machines was powered by four 1,680 kW engines. They even had enough fuel to travel around the world one and a half times. They measured 120 meters in length and displaced around 5,900 tons, which was more than double that of their American counterparts. Their cross section was a unique figure of eight configuration, owing to the top aircraft hangar. This provided the necessary strength and stability to afford the ship of handling the additional weight of the hangar and not make them top heavy. The aircraft hangar was just below the conning tower and fixed along the ship's centerline.
This aircraft hangar was, obviously, water tight and cylindrical in form. Its outer access door was opened hydraulically internally or manually from the outside. It had a 51 mm thick rubber gasket.
Not only did the ship have aerial strike capabilities but was also equipped with some of the largest guns ever seen on a submarine. She was equipped with three waterproofed Type 96 triple mount 25mm anti-aircraft defense guns and a single Type 11 140mm deck gun aft of the hangar! Wow.
The vessel, being a submarine, was also equipped with 8 torpedo tubes mounted at the bow with no aft tubes. It couldn't be too awesome after al
Quote:
Fighters were launched from a 26-meter forward deck mounted compressed air catapult at the bow of the ship. The fighters were recovered using a storable collapsible crane. Underneath the track, four high-pressure air flasks were connected in parallel to provide sufficient "thrust" to launch the fighters to takeoff speed.
During fighter deployment, rapid launch of fighters was a necessity. As older WW2 fighters usually required some time to warm up, specially designed oil pre-heaters were employed to get the engines up to operational temperature as quickly as possible. This was also essential as you couldn't have engines ticking over when submerged, you might just kill the crew!
__________________
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dion For This Useful Post:
I have very little knowledge of military weapons, but I'd be pretty interested to hear what you think about the weapons that Russia was showing off about not so long ago in those videos that gathered so much press. I remember something like a super ICBM that could navigate around defense systems, a super nuclear torpedo or some such thing and a laser cannon.
Russia has really struggled with the fall of the Soviet Union when they were forced into a doctrine change. Gone was the 5-1 advantage where they'd throw the kitchen sink, and the fridge and the sofa at you. They've worked on professionalizing their military and training them properly, they've also changed their focus in terms of weapons design, it used to be that Russian tanks didn't have to be state of the art because they'd throw a few thousand at you. Their artillery didn't need to be super accurate because they'd deploy entire artillery regiments at you. Their submarine doctrine was to basically flood the ocean with subs.
Now their focus is on the technology of weapons.
On the sub side of things, they've taken a generational leap forward with their Borei and Severodvinsk class boats that are in production and just as good as the later flight American boats.
Their S-35 flanker is probably the best fighter that they've ever produced, while its not a match for the 5th generation fighters that the Americans are making, its a battle field dominator.
The Armata Tank is beginning to enter service and the T-90 is still a really good tank, but the Armata could be a game changer, its interesting to see how the M1A3 which is under development will compare.
The P-800 anti-ship missile is a big threat to Carriers due to its range and speed and intelligence.
The russians have also gone away from standard torpedoes and are all in on wake homing torpedoes, which means that normal sonar spoofing countermeasures won't be as effective.
The 3m22 is a super intelligent, stealthy hypersonic cruise missile, which means that the standard naval defenses might need a serious upgrade. The standard air defense missiles won't be able to hit them, and since your detection gate is much quicker the American's might not see the missiles until they're hitting your ship.
The Satan-2 ICBM is being deemed as the invincible missile, it has supposedly a advanced navigation system that means that the missile itself can adjust course or dodge and evade, it also carries a decoy system and a cooling system so its harder to find. On top of that the Satan-2 can carry up to 8 massive war heads.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
The Following User Says Thank You to CaptainCrunch For This Useful Post:
Russia has really struggled with the fall of the Soviet Union when they were forced into a doctrine change. Gone was the 5-1 advantage where they'd throw the kitchen sink, and the fridge and the sofa at you. They've worked on professionalizing their military and training them properly, they've also changed their focus in terms of weapons design, it used to be that Russian tanks didn't have to be state of the art because they'd throw a few thousand at you. Their artillery didn't need to be super accurate because they'd deploy entire artillery regiments at you. Their submarine doctrine was to basically flood the ocean with subs.
Now their focus is on the technology of weapons.
On the sub side of things, they've taken a generational leap forward with their Borei and Severodvinsk class boats that are in production and just as good as the later flight American boats.
Their S-35 flanker is probably the best fighter that they've ever produced, while its not a match for the 5th generation fighters that the Americans are making, its a battle field dominator.
The Armata Tank is beginning to enter service and the T-90 is still a really good tank, but the Armata could be a game changer, its interesting to see how the M1A3 which is under development will compare.
The P-800 anti-ship missile is a big threat to Carriers due to its range and speed and intelligence.
The russians have also gone away from standard torpedoes and are all in on wake homing torpedoes, which means that normal sonar spoofing countermeasures won't be as effective.
The 3m22 is a super intelligent, stealthy hypersonic cruise missile, which means that the standard naval defenses might need a serious upgrade. The standard air defense missiles won't be able to hit them, and since your detection gate is much quicker the American's might not see the missiles until they're hitting your ship.
The Satan-2 ICBM is being deemed as the invincible missile, it has supposedly a advanced navigation system that means that the missile itself can adjust course or dodge and evade, it also carries a decoy system and a cooling system so its harder to find. On top of that the Satan-2 can carry up to 8 massive war heads.
So how much do all of these new weapons actually add up to shift the potential balance of power if Russia were to enter into conflict with a force such as NATO's?
__________________
"If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out?"
With or without the US. Right now Germany's military is a mess with their airforce not being considered to be mission capable, Britains military is a mess as well.
The bottom line is going to be where the battle takes place, but right now in Eastern Europe and especially the Ukraine the supply line and manpower advantage is with the russians if things went well and truly in the bag. Not only would they have closer airfields and logistics divisions, but they would have a lot of troops, tanks and artillery very close to the battle field.
In a naval battle right now in the Ocean, I would still say if the American's are involved, the Russians just don't have the true ability to project power at sea.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
The Following User Says Thank You to CaptainCrunch For This Useful Post:
Just to add on, during the Cold War the Fulda Gap was considered the key location if the cold war went hot. Basically the Soviets would have sent their 8th guard army first which was comprised of a dedicated tank division of 300 tanks plus a dedicated Tank Regiment of 40 to 50 tanks. there would have also had 3 motor vehicle divisions each with 300 tanks, 150 IFV's 200 APC and 13,000 infantry troops. they would also be supported by attached mobile artillary and anti aircraft defenses. The 8th guard also had at least a regiment of heavy artillary and a dedicated anti-air division. The usual support groups (Radio, engineers) at least one company of Spetznaz. A air assault helicopter brigade and a attack helicopter brigade. This group would have battered into the Fulda gap to rip a hole in NATO's defenses, The strategic mobility group that would have followed up the 8th army was the similar sized 1st guard tank army. So Nato would have been facing 2600 tanks, nearly 1500 IFV's 1200 APC's 80,000 troops ad a ton of artillary.
The counter force provided by Nato was about a 5th of the size. In every single war scenario if the cold war would have gone hot would have been the NATO use of tactical nuclear weapons on the Soviet Formation to stop them and hope that their superior aircraft could control the skies.
At the same time in the Atlantic the Soviets would have scrambled their ballistic missile subs and moved them into specially prepared and mined bastions which would free the Soviet attack submarines to flood down across the GIUK gap and head into the Atlantic to stop allied reinforcements supported by long range soviet naval aviation.
There's no doubt that as much as we hate the ideas of nuclear weapons, they were important in stopping the Soviets from ever seriously contemplating war in Europe.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
The Following User Says Thank You to CaptainCrunch For This Useful Post:
Superweapons real or imagined
