[News] UPD: Flames officially buyout Troy Brouwer

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

But when it comes to accountability for what we say and post we expect the media to be held to a higher standard.

We expect the news media to be held to a higher standard. They are supposed to be reporting the news; that is the product they themselves claim to be offering for sale. We are only commenting on the news. The two activities are different and the standards for performing them are different. This is not rocket science.

I get the logic as to why (paid, distribution, visibility, etc)

No, you don't get the logic, because you left out the central point: ‘news’ versus ‘not news’. See above.

but we can’t get on our high horses about just how important the opinions are on this site

I don't think I have ever heard anyone say the opinions on this site were important. Ever. But do go on; let's see where you are trying to take this.

but then give ourselves outs for the hurtful and sometimes outrageous opinions we post on here.

Only one ‘out’ is needed: we are making (or trying to make) what is legally known as ‘fair comment’ on public figures, and since we don't charge money for it, we don't have to worry about annoying our customers.

Players and management are well aware of all forms of media and info now.

And they are well aware of the value of online fan forums, which is pretty close to zero.

Feeling we can say what we want and shouldn’t feel responsible but a need tighter should is the definition of hiding behind a keyboard.

‘A need tighter should’ is not even a valid English phrase. Perhaps you should step out from behind your keyboard and let us know what it was that you failed to say.

At least in print media you know you have to be held accountable for what you say.

In print media you have to avoid committing libel, reporting false news, scaring away advertisers, or pissing off the customers so badly that they take their custom elsewhere. (For many years now, print media have been very bad at avoiding any of those things, which partly explains why they are going down the tubes. But that's another story.) None of that applies here.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

We expect the news media to be held to a higher standard. They are supposed to be reporting the news; that is the product they themselves claim to be offering for sale. We are only commenting on the news. The two activities are different and the standards for performing them are different. This is not rocket science.



No, you don't get the logic, because you left out the central point: ‘news’ versus ‘not news’. See above.



I don't think I have ever heard anyone say the opinions on this site were important. Ever. But do go on; let's see where you are trying to take this.



Only one ‘out’ is needed: we are making (or trying to make) what is legally known as ‘fair comment’ on public figures, and since we don't charge money for it, we don't have to worry about annoying our customers.



And they are well aware of the value of online fan forums, which is pretty close to zero.



‘A need tighter should’ is not even a valid English phrase. Perhaps you should step out from behind your keyboard and let us know what it was that you failed to say.



In print media you have to avoid committing libel, reporting false news, scaring away advertisers, or pissing off the customers so badly that they take their custom elsewhere. (For many years now, print media have been very bad at avoiding any of those things, which partly explains why they are going down the tubes. But that's another story.) None of that applies here.

A few thoughts on your very rilled up reply.

1. News is not always news. Much print media is nothing but opinion based columns that claim to be nothing but that, opinions on news. Even “news news” is always reported with some form of a tint and bias and we all know that and can’t ever expect true media to be able to avoid it.

But most importantly when we are talking sport or entertainment, it is not the same as reporting on actual news or events that matter. The NHL is nothing more than a reality TV show or play we all watch. Anything that goes on within the parameters of putting on that show which includes trades, contracts and buyouts really doesn’t need the same standard of pure fact reporting true world events do. The opinions and spin media offer on those moves is just part of the show. Can it go to far? Fore sure, but let’s not pretend the media has the same obligation to report “the facts and only the facts” when talking hockey transactions.

2. You’ve been here over 10 years and you haven’t picked up on the undertone of arrogance in regards to this collective board. I enjoy it here, but as a group we think we are cats meow to all things Flames. Whether it be the constant “Fan 960 must be reading the board again” to just how much the opinions on here are taken as the most educated about the Flames (and maybe that’s true) this collectively personality of this site feels very strongly about just how good and seriously the opinions on here should be valued.

3. Most of your last points feed exactly what I’m saying. I’m aware of the lack of legal obligation we have when writing our opinions, and I’m aware the media has those and should. I’m also aware of our right to have and express those opinions. What I’m talking about is just how easy it is to share your opinion when you never have to but your name behind it. 80% of what gets spewed here would never get said if the people it was said about were in the room able to identify who said it. And that be ok if it got said and disappeared like it used to in the past when a group of people were just talking hockey over beers. On here it lives on forever, and the people we talk about can read it, but we get the luxury of an anonymous opinion. At least the media have the check and balance of I’m actually going to have to see this guy after they write.

What I find ironic is a bunch of people up in arms about what the Sun headline reflects on our city etc... when there is often fear but also belief that the players and management read and are influenced by this site. If so, how is the Sun headline any worse reflection on the city or fan base then what gets said in here?

4. “Need a tighter should” is not proper English, bravo. Should have said “but the media should”. Fat finger / auto correct typing on my iPhone at play.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

A few thoughts on your very rilled up reply.

You're the only one in this conversation who is riled up. I'm laughing at the utter absurdity of the points you are trying to make.

1. News is not always news. Much print media is nothing but opinion based columns that claim to be nothing but that, opinions on news. Even “news news” is always reported with some form of a tint and bias and we all know that and can’t ever expect true media to be able to avoid it.

True but irrelevant. Fan forums do not even pretend to be reporting news. The fact that person A is not living up to his professional standards does not say anything about person B, who is not even in that profession and is not bound by those standards.

But most importantly when we are talking sport or entertainment, it is not the same as reporting on actual news or events that matter. The NHL is nothing more than a reality TV show or play we all watch.

You mean the games are scripted? News to me.

Anything that goes on within the parameters of putting on that show which includes trades, contracts and buyouts really doesn’t need the same standard of pure fact reporting true world events do. The opinions and spin media offer on those moves is just part of the show. Can it go to far? Fore sure, but let’s not pretend the media has the same obligation to report “the facts and only the facts” when talking hockey transactions.

They have the same legal obligation not to spread false news and not to commit libel. They have the same practical obligation not to lose their paying customers.

2. You’ve been here over 10 years and you haven’t picked up on the undertone of arrogance in regards to this collective board.

I have been here over 10 years, and I have often noticed that the most arrogant people here are those who make generalizations about the board as if it were a monolithic entity obeying some kind of corporate policy. That's a hint, by the way.

I enjoy it here, but as a group we think we are cats meow to all things Flames.

We do? I must have missed that memo – but see above.

Whether it be the constant “Fan 960 must be reading the board again”

I see that comparatively rarely, and most often in a jocular way, as who should say ‘Speak of the devil’.

to just how much the opinions on here are taken as the most educated about the Flames (and maybe that’s true) this collectively personality of this site feels very strongly about just how good and seriously the opinions on here should be valued.

Your opinion – which, by the way, I do not value or take seriously at all, as indeed I do not take most of the opinions posted here.

3. Most of your last points feed exactly what I’m saying. I’m aware of the lack of legal obligation we have when writing our opinions, and I’m aware the media has those and should. I’m also aware of our right to have and express those opinions. What I’m talking about is just how easy it is to share your opinion when you never have to but your name behind it.

It's just as easy to share your opinion when you do have to put your name behind it.

80% of what gets spewed here would never get said if the people it was said about were in the room able to identify who said it.

You mean people censor themselves when there's a celebrity in the room and they don't want to be rude to him? Oh, my, what a shocking idea.

And that be ok if it got said and disappeared like it used to in the past when a group of people were just talking hockey over beers. On here it lives on forever, and the people we talk about can read it, but we get the luxury of an anonymous opinion. At least the media have the check and balance of I’m actually going to have to see this guy after they write.

Actually, the media often get the luxury of anonymous opinions. Quick quiz: Who wrote that idiotic headline for the front page of the Sun? An anonymous headline writer, that's who. Articles are signed, editorials and headlines are never signed.

What I find ironic is a bunch of people up in arms about what the Sun headline reflects on our city etc... when there is often fear but also belief that the players and management read and are influenced by this site. If so, how is the Sun headline any worse reflection on the city or fan base then what gets said in here?

I agree, it's foolish for anyone to think the Sun headline reflects on the city. People don't judge New York by what gets spewed in the Post or the Daily News, and they certainly don't judge London by the trash in their tabloid papers.

4. “Need a tighter should” is not proper English, bravo. Should have said “but the media should”. Fat finger / auto correct typing on my iPhone at play.

If you're taking other people to task about their written communications, you need to be extra careful that your own writing is at least comprehensible. There is a preview function on this board. Fat fingers and autocorrupt are a valid excuse for making errors; not for failing to edit yourself.

[Macindoc]

It's easy to ignore posts on CP. It's not easy to ignore your picture along with "Get outta here" plastered in bold 1" tall block letters across the front page of the local paper on display at every grocery store, gas station, coffee shop and convenience store in town.

[jayswin]

"Get outta here" with a big picture of Troy Brouwer on the front page of the Sun was the most classless thing I've EVER seen from our local media, especially knowing he's a local resident. And local response seems to indicate this was not a minor grievance in the eyes of fans.

I hope Wes Gilberston had some serious words for his coworkers over this as it was his article that was linked to the headline. He reads CP, and as a great talent I'd hope he won't stand for that garbage.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by jayswin

"Get outta here" with a big picture of Troy Brouwer on the front page of the Sun was the most classless thing I've EVER seen from our local media, especially knowing he's a local resident. And local response seems to indicate this was not a minor grievance in the eyes of fans.

I hope Wes Gilberston had some serious words for his coworkers over this as it was his article that was linked to the headline. He reads CP, and as a great talent I'd hope he won't stand for that garbage.

The headline would have been written by some nameless desker in Hamilton. Ontario. Gilbertson would have clocked out for the day by then, and would have had no input in the story layout.

[PugnaciousIntern]

What an embarrassing headline. Instead of only being saddened by this, it crosses a line for me personally and I will be letting the Sun know.

To help facilitate those who agree with me that we need to feed back this disappointment, the contact information below has been taken from the Sun website (https://calgarysun.com/contact-us) and can be copied-pasted into an email address field easily. The website also has a form that you could fill out if that’s your preference.

lmotley@postmedia.com
mzurowski@postmedia.com
mhudson@postmedia.com

(Lorne Motley -Editor-in-Chief, Monica Zurowski -Deputy Editor, Martin Hudson -Managing Editor)

If you’re not concerned by this headline or don’t care enough about it to contact them, that’s totally fine. This post is really only for those who are irked enough to let them know it.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

The headline would have been written by some nameless desker in Hamilton. Ontario. Gilbertson would have clocked out for the day by then, and would have had no input in the story layout.

Fully understood, point still stands.

[jayswin]

I seriously hope the fan base pushes them into a rare apology. It's that bad. I know Kristen Anderson, Wes and others read this site daily. They really should push for some type of apology for this crap.

When everyone talks about players not wanting to come to Canadian markets this is the **** they're talking about. Just so personal and unnecessary.

[icarus]

Originally Posted by PugnaciousIntern

What an embarrassing headline. Instead of only being saddened by this, it crosses a line for me personally and I will be letting the Sun know.

To help facilitate those who agree with me that we need to feed back this disappointment, the contact information below has been taken from the Sun website (https://calgarysun.com/contact-us) and can be copied-pasted into an email address field easily. The website also has a form that you could fill out if that’s your preference.

lmotley@postmedia.com
mzurowski@postmedia.com
mhudson@postmedia.com

(Lorne Motley -Editor-in-Chief, Monica Zurowski -Deputy Editor, Martin Hudson -Managing Editor)

If you’re not concerned by this headline or don’t care enough about it to contact them, that’s totally fine. This post is really only for those who are irked enough to let them know it.

LOL: Martin Hudson, who infamously registered on CP just to come to Eric Francis's defence and berate us for being mean to him...

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[Macindoc]

Form submitted, including a demand that the paper publish a highly visible apology to Brouwer and his family.

[Kybb79]

I was no fan of Brouwer but i agree with most what a dumb move by the Sun.

[TheScorpion]

I still can't comprehend who let that into the copy room. As someone who loves the field of journalism and hopes to be a part of it in the future, it's sensationalist, "eye-catching" garbage like this that I really despise because it distances the public away from otherwise beautifully-crafted reporting hidden underneath the headline. I really want to know who was responsible for this awful gaffe so they can be publicly held accountable for it.

[shogged]

Grab your pitch forks lol

[Poe969]

He's going to end up working for the Flames and the team will yell the sun "get out of here" during a presser or something

[GioforPM]

I agree that one can't unread a headline and that a newspaper must be held to a higher standard than posts on a forum. That said, I hope some people here might now think twice about how they post about individual players. I bet plenty of players or their relatives look at this site.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Yes Lucic's contract is "buy-out proof".

This is essentially because all signing bonuses are paid to the player regardless of a buyout and therefore decreases the cap savings that buying out the contract usually provides.

That is correct.

Instead of saving $10,000,000 of the $30,000,000 cap remaining on his contract, they would only save about $3,666,000 on his contract if they bought him out.

The only real motivation in buying him out would be to spread the cap hit over 10 years instead of 5 right now.

He is owed $26,000,000, but $15,000,000 is bonus, so the buyout is based on the remaining $11,000,000 of salary owing.


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[GullFoss]

In all fairness to The Sun, the publication exists primarily to entice poor people to vote for policies against their better interests by misprepsenting issues that are pro-business as being universally positive and by redirecting their hate at immigrants, natives, people even pooerer than them, public servants, and those with serious issues such as drug addiction and mental illness. At it's core, it a morally reprehensible propaganda print and it's embarrassing it exists insofar that our society has monetized something so integral to democratic society as print media and put it in the hands of charlitans. It's incredibly sad that the only two newspaper publications left with sufficient integrity to be worth reading in this country are the Toronto star and globe and mail, neither of which are owned by post media.

But sure, let's all get worked up over a Troy brouwer headline.

[transplant99]

lol

[Northendzone]

When I was in my 20’s I likely would have thought the headline was amusing; however, 50something me thinks it was classless.

I am trying to wrap my head around the historical sentiment on this board (i.e “fire him into the sun”) for Brouwer versus the headline.

In some ways Troy will likely end up mak8ng even more money over the next two years as the flames will pay him and i am thinking he will likely find work somewhere in the league for a couple of more years.