The Ken King Jersey Discussion Thread

[PugnaciousIntern]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Awesome Scary. Now what would it look like if the collar was gold / yellow (keep shoulders red just collar yellow like the new Adidas style, I think it goes halfway kinda).

Also numbers not italicized but keep the font. Haha sorry nitpicky but if I had any skill I’d do it on my own.

I agree with both those suggestions.

I wonder why teams don't out-source things like jersey concept design to fans. If the goal is to get the nicest looking, most popular kits that will maximize sales, why not get their target audience involved from the beginning?

[N-E-B]

It’s ridiculous how easy and obvious it is to make a beautiful Flames jersey. It’s frustrating beyond belief that our marketing and design team can’t get it right. It’s so simple.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by PugnaciousIntern

I agree with both those suggestions.

I wonder why teams don't out-source things like jersey concept design to fans. If the goal is to get the nicest looking, most popular kits that will maximize sales, why not get their target audience involved from the beginning?

It makes the most sense for sure, but there are 'office politics' at play here - and ownership rarely gives uniforms as much weight as fans do. At the end of the day, the jerseys are selling.

Between Adidas and team ownership, this is also hiring a fan to come in and demonstrate concepts and ideas to their in-house design team and that causes a bit of friction. For that team to take a popular design they find online is asking for a potential legal hurdle if the fan doesn't feel appropriately compensated or recognized (look up the Weagle logo legal issues) and it's not always as clear to them as it is to us which fan put forward a design. Icethetics, as an example, does a very poor job of vetting their concepts:
https://www.icethetics.co/concepts/2...tion?rq=flames

Aside: I commented in there that this was nearly identical to my design, and the site-owner turned off the comments. So as a creator: stay clear of that site. He isn't going to protect your work. But if the Flames liked that concept and hired Marcel Donald there would be an issue.

So basically, you're looking for a fan that can prove the concept is their own, has a design and direction background and can work with your in-house design team to create something Adidas accepts.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

It’s ridiculous how easy and obvious it is to make a beautiful Flames jersey. It’s frustrating beyond belief that our marketing and design team can’t get it right. It’s so simple.

I just talked about how difficult is would be to bring a fan on-board... but this is also the biggest issue.

How fans are churning out great concepts, and the organization (Flames aren't alone in this) are green-lighting designs that don't capture what fans are demonstrating has to be stubbornness I have to think. Flames fans have been (from the places I look anyway) telling ownership they want red/white/yellow since the Edge design, and we've seen 2 jersey designs since that didn't address that at all. Even though Buffalo still hasn't nailed their uniforms, you can tell they're listening. They keep tacking on crap that doesn't need to be there... but you can see a design team trying to balance ownership/marketing/players preferences and fans'.

[Jimmy Stang]

I don't think we need something solely fan-designed or anything like that. But maybe a focus group with some fans, actual designers that are outside of the Flames' echo chamber, a simple bit of research into what the fans are drooling over, etc. Even counting the thanks on posts on this thread would be more research than they've probably done on fans' opinions.

I just picture Ken King and the inner circle smiling at jersey concepts without actually real design sense. "Lots of black. Looks cool and modern! Blue flag on a red shirt? Sharp! Let's spell Calgary out on the third - we haven't done a scripty wordmark yet! It works for baseball! And it's got more black than ever!"

The current shirts may be selling, but that doesn't mean that better designs wouldn't sell truckloads more. Missed opportunity. My faith in the organization's communications is at an all time low ever since the "you're gonna love it!" CalgaryNext joke. That's not for this thread, but it falls under the larger umbrella and doesn't give confidence to the club's PR, image, communications, etc.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

I don't think we need something solely fan-designed or anything like that. But maybe a focus group with some fans, actual designers that are outside of the Flames' echo chamber, a simple bit of research into what the fans are drooling over, etc. Even counting the thanks on posts on this thread would be more research than they've probably done on fans' opinions.

I just picture Ken King and the inner circle smiling at jersey concepts without actually real design sense. "Lots of black. Looks cool and modern! Blue flag on a red shirt? Sharp! Let's spell Calgary out on the third - we haven't done a scripty wordmark yet! It works for baseball! And it's got more black than ever!"

The current shirts may be selling, but that doesn't mean that better designs wouldn't sell truckloads more. Missed opportunity. My faith in the organization's communications is at an all time low ever since the "you're gonna love it!" CalgaryNext joke. That's not for this thread, but it falls under the larger umbrella and doesn't give confidence to the club's PR, image, communications, etc.

That's exactly what teams should be doing. It's surprising it's not a common thing, as even just the buzz around them having the meeting would be a positive.

It's probably just as simple as the players, Edwards, the equipment guy, etc liking the black over the 80s stuff they keep seeing online. As silly as it seems, the people who would be running that focus group and running designs by ownership have a mountain of other things to do getting ready for the season. It seems to not get as much play in hockey ops as we'd hope - as fans that spend hundreds on merch.

I want to picture a group of people sitting down to come up with a style that perfectly captures the heritage and passion for the team. Combing through fan feedback, submissions, and observations at the Saddledome to get a good feel for what fans want and submitting concepts to ownership with detailed views on why this jersey should be what they wear. But that position doesn't exist

[Cecil Terwilliger]

I think I actually prefer the red outline on the C. It prevents the yellow from bleeding into the white.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

It’s ridiculous how easy and obvious it is to make a beautiful Flames jersey. It’s frustrating beyond belief that our marketing and design team can’t get it right. It’s so simple.

The organization as a whole seems to struggle with design. I think a lot of other teams have nice jacket designs and I feel like Flames stuff except New Era hats are just tacky looking.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I think I actually prefer the red outline on the C. It prevents the yellow from bleeding into the white.

I do agree, and it's what makes the striping on the white jersey so attractive here as well.

I wonder if the striping around the C would look better a bit thicker. It looks like it might just be the thin outline in contrast to the bold striping that looks off to people's eyes.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

The organization as a whole seems to struggle with design. I think a lot of other teams have nice jacket designs and I feel like Flames stuff except New Era hats are just tacky looking.

I really don’t think the black C translates well to clothing. Pretty much all my Flames apparel has either the red C or the retro colours.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

The organization as a whole seems to struggle with design. I think a lot of other teams have nice jacket designs and I feel like Flames stuff except New Era hats are just tacky looking.

When will they figure out that the Flaming C on hats needs to be cut from 1 piece of fabric and not embroiderd!! Freaking brutal, almost every flames hat.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

When will they figure out that the Flaming C on hats needs to be cut from 1 piece of fabric and not sewn on!!! Ugh. Freaking brutal, almost every flames hat.

If they cut the Flaming C from fabric it will need to be sewn on to stay on the hat. Embroidery is the term for the customization process you dislike.

[PugnaciousIntern]

Originally Posted by Reaper

If they cut the Flaming C from fabric it will need to be sewn on to stay on the hat. Embroidery is the term for the customization process you dislike.

I think the point of the post was referring to how the individual flames on the left of the C look ridiculous with threads going in every which way.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by PugnaciousIntern

I think the point of the post was referring to how the individual flames on the left of the C look ridiculous with threads going in every which way.

Okay, but that's not what I was addressing. I was helping him find the appropriate word rather than saying something nonsensical.

[bc-chris]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

When will they figure out that the Flaming C on hats needs to be cut from 1 piece of fabric and not sewn on!!! Ugh. Freaking brutal, almost every flames hat.

Originally Posted by Reaper

If they cut the Flaming C from fabric it will need to be sewn on to stay on the hat. Embroidery is the term for the customization process you dislike.

i agree - as someone in the industry the embroidery on most flames hats doesn't do much for me.


it can be done to look great, but usually the execution falls short.


Scroopy - i'm assuming you are referring to the puffed (raised) designs. there are a ton of restrictions with that kind of embroidery and the flames logo does not lend itself well to this kind of embroidery. i've seen some really well done caps with raised logos that have similar restrictions as the flaming c. not sure why the flames logo doesn't get the same love?

[Split98]

Originally Posted by bc-chris

i agree - as someone in the industry the embroidery on most flames hats doesn't do much for me.


it can be done to look great, but usually the execution falls short.


Scroopy - i'm assuming you are referring to the puffed (raised) designs. there are a ton of restrictions with that kind of embroidery and the flames logo does not lend itself well to this kind of embroidery. i've seen some really well done caps with raised logos that have similar restrictions as the flaming c. not sure why the flames logo doesn't get the same love?

All the ones you're talking about are probably coming off the same embroidery file

[bc-chris]

Originally Posted by Split98

All the ones you're talking about are probably coming off the same embroidery file

i agree completely. it's so typical - source out the programming to the company with the cheapest price possible and then send this file to all the garment producers. this rationale makes no sense though... a crappy program will look bad no matter how good the embroidery machines/operators are, but a good program will even look 'not bad' when produced on a crappy machine with a clueless operator.
the embroidery file is like the foundation of a house.... do you cheap out on that? ...we don't reeeeally need all this rebar right?? just throw in the odd piece here and there - i don't think so! get the logo setup properly once and then you're good to go.

[MissTeeks]

Maybe they can incorporate the designs from their new ugly Hawaiian shirts?

[Enoch Root]

That is hideous!!! Where can I get one?!!

[MissTeeks]

Right from the FanAttic website, only $80.

http://www.flamesport.com/product/33...ral-shirt-xxl/