[News] Hathaway Arb numbers: Player asking for $975k, 1 way. Team asking for $650k, 1 way

[Nelson]

If the Flames wanted another forward, I wish they would’ve signed Shore and let Hathaway go.

Currently, they have 17 forwards including a bunch of lousy veterans who will keep prospects and promising younger players, who could be playing in the NHL, in the AHL.


Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Neal
Bennett - Jankowski/Ryan - Frolik
LW - Ryan/Jankowski - RW


Lousy veterans


Lazar
Brouwer
Hathaway


Promising younger players and prospects


Czarnik
Mangiapane
Foo
Dube


So I feel like there are 7 players fighting for 2 spots.


I think Mangiapane should get 4LW and Czarnik should get 4 RW, but I could see Dube or Foo fighting into those spots as well.


Send Foo, Dube and Lazar (who cares if Lazar gets claimed?) with the call-up order being Foo, then Dube, then Lazar. Lazar needs to light up the AHL and regain confidence if he can.


I kind of see Hathaway as the 5LW on the depth chart and Brouwer as the 5RW.

[lazypucker]

So if I understand correctly, if a RFA player chooses to go to arbitration, as long as the decision is under $4.22 mil, he is guaranteed to be signed. The team can't even release the player outright unless using a buyout?

By the way, can a team release a RFA outright by telling him that there will be no contract offer? Will the RFA become a free agent then?

[kyuss275]

I'm actually amazed that flames were offering him a one way contract and Kulak a 2way contract.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by lazypucker

So if I understand correctly, if a RFA player chooses to go to arbitration, as long as the decision is under $4.22 mil, he is guaranteed to be signed. The team can't even release the player outright unless using a buyout?

Yes, if a player elected salary arbitration, teams can only walkaway from the arbitrator's decision if the award is $4.22 million or above. Any other award the team must accept the arbitrator's decision and the player is signed. BTW the $4.22 million figure is tied to the salary cap and will vary year to year.

By the way, can a team release a RFA outright by telling him that there will be no contract offer? Will the RFA become a free agent then?

Yes, this is essentially what a Qualifying Offer is. The CBA defines the requirements for a team to offer a pending RFA a qualifying offer. If the team doesn't offer a pending RFA the appropriate qualifying offer by a deadline, the RFA becomes UFA.

[flamesfan1297]

Originally Posted by lazypucker

So if I understand correctly, if a RFA player chooses to go to arbitration, as long as the decision is under $4.22 mil, he is guaranteed to be signed. The team can't even release the player outright unless using a buyout?

By the way, can a team release a RFA outright by telling him that there will be no contract offer? Will the RFA become a free agent then?

I'm not too sure about the first question, but the second question is yes, if an RFA is not offered a contract he becomes a UFA

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I'm actually amazed that flames were offering him a one way contract and Kulak a 2way contract.

I am not, Treliving doesn't really have a leg to stand on when he gave Freddie Hamilton a one way deal after 32 NHL games over 4 pro seasons

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

I am not, Treliving doesn't really have a leg to stand on when he gave Freddie Hamilton a one way deal after 32 NHL games over 4 pro seasons

Wouldn't that have applied to Kulak also?

[gamesaver]

Gaudreau - Monahan - Neal
Tkachuk - Backlund - Lindholm
Bennet - Ryan - Frolik
Czarnik - Jankowski - Lazar

Hathaway - 13th

Brouwer bought out

Dube, Mangiapane and Foo got to drive Stockton to success and prove they deserve the spot. Last season was terrible for the Heat. Year before Jankowski, Kulak and Hathaway led the team to the playoffs where they almost knocked out the division champions, just lost the deciding game in OT. If the team success is what is valued here, they simply have to prove it on AHL level and I actually dont mind it.

BTW, we got awfully lot of centers...

EDIT: forgot to mention Hathaway is one of our players who can bring in some hard hitting, after we lost Ferland I am worried about becoming a little bit too soft.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

I am not, Treliving doesn't really have a leg to stand on when he gave Freddie Hamilton a one way deal after 32 NHL games over 4 pro seasons

Who is Hathaway babysitting?

[jlh2640]

I like these figures get him and Hanifin done asap

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Nelson

If the Flames wanted another forward, I wish they would’ve signed Shore and let Hathaway go.

Currently, they have 17 forwards including a bunch of lousy veterans who will keep prospects and promising younger players, who could be playing in the NHL, in the AHL.


Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Neal
Bennett - Jankowski/Ryan - Frolik
LW - Ryan/Jankowski - RW


Lousy veterans


Lazar
Brouwer
Hathaway


Promising younger players and prospects


Czarnik
Mangiapane
Foo
Dube


So I feel like there are 7 players fighting for 2 spots.


I think Mangiapane should get 4LW and Czarnik should get 4 RW, but I could see Dube or Foo fighting into those spots as well.


Send Foo, Dube and Lazar (who cares if Lazar gets claimed?) with the call-up order being Foo, then Dube, then Lazar. Lazar needs to light up the AHL and regain confidence if he can.


I kind of see Hathaway as the 5LW on the depth chart and Brouwer as the 5RW.

You realize Lazar is younger than both Czarnik and Foo.... right?

[Brick]

I am surprised that they offered Hathaway a contract at all.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Brick

I am surprised that they offered Hathaway a contract at all.

After Ferland he had the most hits in the forward group last season. Proved he can produce in the AHL, so decent possibility he can improve his production in the NHL. Always one of the most fit players on the team. Seems perfect for the 12th, 13th forward on the team.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Fire

After Ferland he had the most hits in the forward group last season. Proved he can produce in the AHL, so decent possibility he can improve his production in the NHL. Always one of the most fit players on the team. Seems perfect for the 12th, 13th forward on the team.

More of an issue of giving him the ability to go to arbitration. Even without a qualifying offer, they may still have been able to sign him as a UFA, as I don't see there likely being much of a market for him elsewhere. Obviously, the Flames value him more than most people on CP.

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

You realize Lazar is younger than both Czarnik and Foo.... right?

Being a veteran isn’t necessarily about age. Lazar is only 23, but he’s played 245 NHL games compared to Czarnik’s 59 and Foo’s 4. Also, he’s arguably the Flames’ worst forward. I think it’s close. However, there’s no doubt he’s replacement level and should be replaced. The problem is that he has 1st round status and the Flames paid a 2nd round pick for him so he has some value to the organization. But he is lousy and he is a veteran and he is in the way.

[Strange Brew]

I think Hathaway gets a little less credit than he deserves here. No doubt his NHL play tailed off but in comparing him to guys like Czarnik and Foo, they are getting credit for basically not being good enough to be in the NHL last year. I mean I’m not convinced Hathaway is anything above replacement value, but I also think he deserves the chance to prove he can build on his first NHL season.

[Party Elephant]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I think Hathaway gets a little less credit than he deserves here. No doubt his NHL play tailed off but in comparing him to guys like Czarnik and Foo, they are getting credit for basically not being good enough to be in the NHL last year. I mean I’m not convinced Hathaway is anything above replacement value, but I also think he deserves the chance to prove he can build on his first NHL season.

It's more of a floor vs ceiling discussion. We know that Hathaway at his best is a physical grinder who is suited for 4th line duty and not much else. Foo and Czarnik have more offensive upside but whether or not they hit that remains to be seen. They both have the potential to be second/third line players, with a best case scenario being a Ferland situation where one of them gets a chance with Johnny and Mony and clicks. The same can't be said for Hathaway.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I'm actually amazed that flames were offering him a one way contract and Kulak a 2way contract.

I'm amazed they even qualified him let alone a one way offer. I can't for the life of me find a spot for him on this team.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Nelson

Being a veteran isn’t necessarily about age. Lazar is only 23, but he’s played 245 NHL games compared to Czarnik’s 59 and Foo’s 4. Also, he’s arguably the Flames’ worst forward. I think it’s close. However, there’s no doubt he’s replacement level and should be replaced. The problem is that he has 1st round status and the Flames paid a 2nd round pick for him so he has some value to the organization. But he is lousy and he is a veteran and he is in the way.

I'm not here to sell Lazar as my leading break out player for next season. He just may not have the ability to move his head into the pace needed to play at the NHL level.

But there's a lot of data that suggests the kid was coming on as a pretty decent fourth line player last year.

His numbers ...

Played 65 games and as a body of work it doesn't look great.

Relative corsi to the team the worst
Relative scoring chances splits to team, 10th worst (moving towards middle)

But high danger chances he's actually 9th best. He gets in on pucks and he keeps the noise down defensively, which is what you want for a fourth line guy.

His splits get more interesting

His first 20 games:
CF% 46.1%
SCF% 45.2%
HDCF% 39.2%

His next 20 games:
CF% 50.1%
SCF% 50.2%
HDCF% 48.2%

His last 25 games:
CF% 55.5%
SCF% 55.4%
HDCF% 60.0%

That's a pretty substantial move in getting things done, especially as the Flames season fell apart.

Not picking on you specifically, but sometimes an old narrative takes hold and fans don't let it go.

I don't think Lazar is ever moving into the top six, he can't think the game fast enough to use his tools. But he's dummying things down and becoming an effective bottom roster player that has speed, heart and hits more than most Calgary depth players.

[Enoch Root]

Those numbers jive pretty well with how last season looked: Lazar started very slowly, but got better and better as the season progressed. He was a very serviceable player throughout the 2nd half of the season.