[News] Kulak arb numbers. Kulak asking for $1.15M. Flames countering with 2 way $650k

[Bingo]

Looks to me like the agent decided on the angle of getting the salary above the bury in the AHL limit instead of making his client favourable to fit the roster for cap concerns.

I see why both make sense, but I think he picked the one least likely to succeed and with that has painted himself into a corner.

Now the arbitrator will come in midpoint (especially with waivers) and his client will be neither a) above the AHL line or b) cheaper than Valimaki

That's a mistake in my mind.

[Imported_Aussie]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Looks to me like the agent decided on the angle of getting the salary above the bury in the AHL limit instead of making his client favourable to fit the roster for cap concerns.

I see why both make sense, but I think he picked the one least likely to succeed and with that has painted himself into a corner.

Now the arbitrator will come in midpoint (especially with waivers) and his client will be neither a) above the AHL line or b) cheaper than Valimaki

That's a mistake in my mind.

This is bang on - Kulak's agent overplayed his hand and Treliving called. Now the best case for Kulak is likely to force a trade, as a return to the AHL would stall his progress, and he has to look ahead to being best positioned at UFA to cash in.
RFA with arbitration rights is the first time a player has leverage, but it is not always the best time to play hardball. Kulak could keep growing and become a #4D. He could also stay a bottom pairing guy, or fade into a AHL tweener. His skill development is a factor, but so is his NHL game time, and this power play only serves to hurt his game time

EDIT: Of course he can also lower his demands before the verdict comes in, if he becomes more motivated to seal a deal that prioritizes playing time over $$

[Svartsengi]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

When would we expect a ruling?

its a maximum of 48 hours from the end of the meeting.

[Toonage]

His hearing isn't until this afternoon apparently so there is still time to come to an agreement.

Honestly I'd be surprised if that doesn't occur in the next hour or so.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Toonage

His hearing isn't until this afternoon apparently so there is still time to come to an agreement.

Honestly I'd be surprised if that doesn't occur in the next hour or so.

I thought someone said it was 9:00 ET.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Looks to me like the agent decided on the angle of getting the salary above the bury in the AHL limit instead of making his client favourable to fit the roster for cap concerns.

I see why both make sense, but I think he picked the one least likely to succeed and with that has painted himself into a corner.

Now the arbitrator will come in midpoint (especially with waivers) and his client will be neither a) above the AHL line or b) cheaper than Valimaki

That's a mistake in my mind.

Yeah, if I'm Kulak, I'm looking for a new agent. All he's done is hurt Kulak's relationship with the team and damage his chances of playing 82 NHL games this season.

[Toonage]

Gio:

Conflicting reports. I read its this afternoon.

If it was in fact this morning, disregard what I said.

[Freeway]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Looks to me like the agent decided on the angle of getting the salary above the bury in the AHL limit instead of making his client favourable to fit the roster for cap concerns.

I see why both make sense, but I think he picked the one least likely to succeed and with that has painted himself into a corner.

Now the arbitrator will come in midpoint (especially with waivers) and his client will be neither a) above the AHL line or b) cheaper than Valimaki

That's a mistake in my mind.

FWIW, Valimaki's NHL salary is $925k, so Kulak will almost definitely be given an arb number lower than that.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Gio:

Conflicting reports. I read its this afternoon.

If it was in fact this morning, disregard what I said.

It was getbak but looking back he said hearings start then so maybe that wasn't specific to his.

[Freeway]

Under the CBA, hearings start at 9am ET unless the parties agree to start in the afternoon (at 2).

[Toonage]

So they might choose the afternoon to give them more time to hash something out. Got it.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Freeway

FWIW, Valimaki's NHL salary is $925k, so Kulak will almost definitely be given an arb number lower than that.

Capfriendly has him at 894K, but that's splitting hairs.

The big point to me is having Kulak 200K below that so there is incentive to have him make the team and save cap space.

A ruling anywhere north of 850K pretty much takes that away.

[Freeway]

Oh, for sure. But the decision-making on Valimaki also needs to factor in the Slide Factor, whereas they get a 4th year on his ELC (functionally) if he plays 9 or fewer NHL games.

[Bear]

Originally Posted by Toonage

So they might choose the afternoon to give them more time to hash something out. Got it.

They can continue to negotiate after the hearing. Negotiations can continue until the arbitrator announces their ruling.

[Toonage]

But this way they could get something done prior to the airing of the grievances.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Toonage

But this way they could get something done prior to the airing of the grievances.

Before December 23rd then?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

Yeah, if I'm Kulak, I'm looking for a new agent. All he's done is hurt Kulak's relationship with the team and damage his chances of playing 82 NHL games this season.

How do you know that?

If the Flames were not budging on a two-way contract, and Kulak caved in and signed it, that would likely damage his chances a lot more. At least for playing in Calgary.

Right now the team has, effectively, 6 one-way contracts. If Kulak signed a two-way contract and some prospect made the jump, he would appear to be the odd man out. Unless he too clearly outperformed Prout at training camp. But as much as we like to pretend that the Flames are okay sending down Prout at 800K if Andersson makes the team, spending that additional 800K in the AHL is not something they take lightly.

Having Kulak on a two-way contract provides the flexibility to send him down without costing the team close to a million dollars if Valimaki or Anderson do make the team.

Again, I was pretty adamant that the hold up was a one-way or two-way contract so I'm not surprised to see that the Flames submitted a two-way contract.

I strongly think this is a case where Kulak would have happily signed an 800K, one way contract while the Flames would have happily signed an 900K, two-way contract. But since neither had cracked, it's up to arbitration.

[burnitdown]

Originally Posted by Imported_Aussie

This is bang on - Kulak's agent overplayed his hand and Treliving called. Now the best case for Kulak is likely to force a trade, as a return to the AHL would stall his progress, and he has to look ahead to being best positioned at UFA to cash in.
RFA with arbitration rights is the first time a player has leverage, but it is not always the best time to play hardball. Kulak could keep growing and become a #4D. He could also stay a bottom pairing guy, or fade into a AHL tweener. His skill development is a factor, but so is his NHL game time, and this power play only serves to hurt his game time

EDIT: Of course he can also lower his demands before the verdict comes in, if he becomes more motivated to seal a deal that prioritizes playing time over $$

I don't blame him for wanting to secure a one-way deal. He probably sees the young guys getting ready to pass him on the depth chart. He's likely no more than a depth defenseman in the NHL so this might be his only chance to pull in a guaranteed $800k-$900k salary. If he's passed this year, he very likely could be on a two-way deal for the rest of his hockey career so this potential one-way contract could mean a lot to his long-term financial outlook.

Prioritizing playing time over money is a major gamble, as that's assuming it's one or the other. If one of the young guys plays lights out in pre-season and they decide they want Prout as the 7th D, he'll be sent down regardless, with no playing time in the NHL or money.

[Erick Estrada]

I'm on pins an needles here. Can they please announce the decision so I can get some work done today!

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

How do you know that?

If the Flames were not budging on a two-way contract, and Kulak caved in and signed it, that would likely damage his chances a lot more. At least for playing in Calgary.

Right now the team has, effectively, 6 one-way contracts. If Kulak signed a two-way contract and some prospect made the jump, he would appear to be the odd man out. Unless he too clearly outperformed Prout at training camp. But as much as we like to pretend that the Flames are okay sending down Prout at 800K if Andersson makes the team, spending that additional 800K in the AHL is not something they take lightly.

Having Kulak on a two-way contract provides the flexibility to send him down without costing the team close to a million dollars if Valimaki or Anderson do make the team.

Again, I was pretty adamant that the hold up was a one-way or two-way contract so I'm not surprised to see that the Flames submitted a two-way contract.

I strongly think this is a case where Kulak would have happily signed an 800K, one way contract while the Flames would have happily signed an 900K, two-way contract. But since neither had cracked, it's up to arbitration.

Yes and no.

A two way contract under $1M would save them some actual dollars as he'd have an AHL salary paying quite a bit less, but it's really not that important in this case as;

a) he'd have to clear waivers
b) at under $1M he wouldn't effect the cap if sent down.

The two way thing would be the wrong hill to die on for the agent in this case.