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Old 07-22-2018, 10:38 AM   #121
Jay Random
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Originally Posted by getbak View Post
The Avs matched so fast that it instantly became an academic discussion that means nothing. Everything since then has just been people pretending they weren't completely incompetent and/or were smarter than everyone else.
No, everything since then has been people accusing Feaster & co. of complete incompetence based on something that never happened.
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Old 07-22-2018, 11:00 AM   #122
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No, everything since then has been people accusing Feaster & co. of complete incompetence based on something that never happened.

His overall work as gm with the flames gave him a " complete incompetence". The only good thing he did was listen to his scouts for gaudreau. Then he hired Weisbrod and tried to re-envent the wheel.
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Old 07-22-2018, 11:08 AM   #123
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His overall work as gm with the flames gave him a " complete incompetence".
Asserted but not proved.

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The only good thing he did was listen to his scouts for gaudreau.
Asserted but not proved.

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Then he hired Weisbrod and tried to re-envent the wheel.
Asserted but not proved.
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Old 07-22-2018, 11:30 AM   #124
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No, everything since then has been people accusing Feaster & co. of complete incompetence based on something that never happened.
There was a lot more than the ror offer sheet that resulted in people calling Feaster and Co incompetent
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Old 07-22-2018, 11:57 AM   #125
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There was a lot more than the ror offer sheet that resulted in people calling Feaster and Co incompetent
Then why are people spending so much time calling them incompetent over a hypothetical that never happened? If the facts support your case so well, why aren't you sticking to those?
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Old 07-22-2018, 12:13 PM   #126
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This thread has morphed into something real stupid.
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Old 07-22-2018, 12:16 PM   #127
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But you're telling us that its 100% that they would have surrendered the picks and lost the player too. OK, then.
That’s not what I said. I said better than 50-50 chance.
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Old 07-22-2018, 12:41 PM   #128
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Then why are people spending so much time calling them incompetent over a hypothetical that never happened? If the facts support your case so well, why aren't you sticking to those?
The offer sheet made the organization look like a joke which was the case since the Phaneuf trade.

Feaster guaranteed a playoff spot.
Feaster overhyped the crap out of Baertschi
Calling Jankowski he best player in the draft in 10 years
Horrible Regehr trade
Horrible Iginla trade fiasco
Horrible Bouwmeester trade
Terrible Wideman contract
Brad Richards attempt

The offer sheet was another black mark on the team fortunately it turned out to be a non factor and the Flames decided to rebuild. Fortunately they brought in Burke to guide the ship on the rebuild and he was wise to remove Feaster from the organization
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Old 07-22-2018, 01:44 PM   #129
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That’s not what I said. I said better than 50-50 chance.
The fact is, you have no basis for claiming such odds. And you have no basis for claiming that the Flames would have lost the player AND the compensation, as no such thing has ever happened before.
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Old 07-22-2018, 01:45 PM   #130
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The offer sheet made the organization look like a joke which was the case since the Phaneuf trade.
Feaster was not GM at the time of the Phaneuf trade. If the organization already looked like a joke because of that, then it was not his fault.

Try again.
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Old 07-22-2018, 02:49 PM   #131
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The fact is, you have no basis for claiming such odds. And you have no basis for claiming that the Flames would have lost the player AND the compensation, as no such thing has ever happened before.
It’s my job to tell people whether their case has a good chance or not. And I could go through the whole argument but it seems like it would be a waste of time, on a moot issue. What I can say 100% is that the Flames could have eliminated any risk by making a call.
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Old 07-22-2018, 03:10 PM   #132
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Feaster was not GM at the time of the Phaneuf trade. If the organization already looked like a joke because of that, then it was not his fault.

Try again.
Classic

Take one thing I state about the organization at the time (I did not say Feaster was responsible for the Phaneuf trade I listed the offer sheet, and several other things he was responsible for. The Phaneuf trade was when the Flames started to look like a joke league wide all Feaster did was pour gas on the fire his enter one here.

Way to cherry pick one thing and gloss over everything else. Shows you have no leg to stand on and trying to get in a last word.

Why don’t you try again?
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Old 07-22-2018, 03:24 PM   #133
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No, everything since then has been people accusing Feaster & co. of complete incompetence based on something that never happened.
I'm not just talking about Feaster. I mean everyone. O'Reilly for playing two games in Russia after the deadline. O'Reilly's agent for not knowing or allowing his client to play in Russia after the deadline. The League, the Avs, and literally everyone else associated with the league and the media covering the league who never mentioned even the possibility that O'Reilly had killed his offer sheet leverage by playing two games in Russia after the deadline.

It's pretty convenient how everyone became super-geniuses about the nuances of the CBA/MOU after the fact.
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Old 07-22-2018, 06:54 PM   #134
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Classic

Take one thing I state about the organization at the time (I did not say Feaster was responsible for the Phaneuf trade I listed the offer sheet, and several other things he was responsible for. The Phaneuf trade was when the Flames started to look like a joke league wide all Feaster did was pour gas on the fire his enter one here.

Way to cherry pick one thing and gloss over everything else. Shows you have no leg to stand on and trying to get in a last word.

Why don’t you try again?
You're the one who said (a) that the Flames were a laughingstock because of the Phaneuf trade and (b) the Flames were a laughingstock because of Feaster. The two things are mutually exclusive. You evidently aren't bright enough to see that you have blatantly contradicted yourself.

Pointing out a blatant contradiction in someone's case is not cherrypicking.
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Old 07-22-2018, 07:41 PM   #135
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You're the one who said (a) that the Flames were a laughingstock because of the Phaneuf trade and (b) the Flames were a laughingstock because of Feaster. The two things are mutually exclusive. You evidently aren't bright enough to see that you have blatantly contradicted yourself.

Pointing out a blatant contradiction in someone's case is not cherrypicking.
I stated the moment the Flames became a laughing stock however that was not Feaster was in charge. During Feasters time as GM of the Flames he did nothing but add to that narrative.

I didn’t say Feaster turned the Flames into a laughing stock. I also provided several examples of what he DID do to add to that reputation that was developed by his predecessor by making a couple of horrible trades.

You know Jay there was more than one reason the Flames were a laughing stock for the better part of 3 years. I stated the incident that started it which did not happen to involve Jay Feaster. I then list several things Feaster did to keep that narrative relevant for 3 years.

Whatever grasp to whatever you want and gloss over the true facts.

So let me state it differently

Jay Feaster was a horrible GM
1. He overhyped and put far too much pressure on Sven Baertschi
2. He put unneeded hype on Mark Jankowski to try and justify a move that had the hockey world shaking their head
3. He made several horrible trades starting with Regehr where he gave a high pick to dump a player the team could have buried in Europe.
4. The reason he needed to dump that player in Europe was so he could take a run at a 31 year of UFA with a 9 year $7M+ AAV contract
5. He signed a mediocre Dman to a 5 year $5.25M deal with a full NMC
6. He handled the Iginla trade horribly which had the ho key world shaking their head at the flames and forcing Ken King to admit on the radio they probably should have confirmed with Iggy before making a trade
7. He trades Bouwmeester for A protected pick and 2 throw away prospects when he had a year and a half left on his deal and was in no immediate rush
8. He would go to the media and make statements that made the organization sound delusional. He would threaten change and do nothing or guarantee a playoff spot.
9. The RoR offer sheet

I will state this clearly so you understand

The above 9 points were some moves Jay Feaster made that contributed to the perception that this organization was a laughing stock. To be fair to Jay this team was not in the best shape when he took it over but he did nothing to change that perception for the positive. He turned this roster into a bottom 5 team and got very little for the assets he sold off. He was a bad hockey executive that almost certainly will never be a NHL GM again. We are lucky as fans he was fired shortly after the rebuild began
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Old 07-23-2018, 09:27 AM   #136
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FFS people, everyone is arguing like this would have gone to a court of law to be interpreted by a judge who is only going to look at the words printed on paper.

Bettman had the God power to restore sanity should it have been necessary - we have seen commissioners in other leagues do similar things (Chris Paul trade to Lakers comes to mind). The only scenario in which Bettman would not have intervened is if the other 29 owners all hated Murray Edwards so much that they would take a hit to HRR to stick it to him.
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Old 07-23-2018, 09:38 AM   #137
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FFS people, everyone is arguing like this would have gone to a court of law to be interpreted by a judge who is only going to look at the words printed on paper.

Bettman had the God power to restore sanity should it have been necessary - we have seen commissioners in other leagues do similar things (Chris Paul trade to Lakers comes to mind). The only scenario in which Bettman would not have intervened is if the other 29 owners all hated Murray Edwards so much that they would take a hit to HRR to stick it to him.
It would have been an arbitrator, not a judge but, yeah, the arbitrator would look at the words on the paper.

I'm not sure what you mean by Bettman's "god power". But a big chunk of GMs (and perhaps owners) hate offer sheets (either on principle or because they raise salaries) and haven't actually made one since the O'Reilly example.
So I suppose some of them might have been happy if it was rejected. Bettman has moved to interfere with contracts that some owners liked but others didn't (eg. Kovalchuk), so who knows what he would have done.
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Old 07-23-2018, 01:48 PM   #138
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FFS people, everyone is arguing like this would have gone to a court of law to be interpreted by a judge who is only going to look at the words printed on paper.

Bettman had the God power to restore sanity should it have been necessary - we have seen commissioners in other leagues do similar things (Chris Paul trade to Lakers comes to mind). The only scenario in which Bettman would not have intervened is if the other 29 owners all hated Murray Edwards so much that they would take a hit to HRR to stick it to him.
I'm not sure about that.

For instance when the league brought in the picks for poached managers/coaches policy it was intended to reward teams for developing strong assistant GMs/Assistant coaches, and give them incentive to allow those employees to talk to other clubs about opportunities.

Instead teams had to pay picks to hire fired coaches/managers that were technically still under contract.

The league admitted that this wasn't their intention and overturned the rule quickly, but teams were still forced to pay compensation if they hired anyone while that rule was in effect.
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Old 07-23-2018, 07:39 PM   #139
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Article 6.1 of the NHL
Constitution charges the Commissioner with “protecting the integrity of the
game of professional hockey and preserving public confidence in the
League.”
6.3 expands on the rest of it - this would have easily fallen within his power.

http://sportsdocuments.com/2013/11/nhl-constitution/
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Old 07-23-2018, 08:04 PM   #140
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6.3 expands on the rest of it - this would have easily fallen within his power.

http://sportsdocuments.com/2013/11/nhl-constitution/
That gives him a job to do. Not sure it grants a power to do whatever he wants in aid of that goal.

For example if he thinks RFAs shouldn’t get 8 year contracts for the good of the game, he can’t just outlaw them.
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