07-07-2018, 09:04 AM
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#121
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Rocky Mt House
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Backlund was not an RFA even be signed his new contract.
We knew who and what he was. There was no need to rely on expectations.
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07-07-2018, 10:09 AM
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#122
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricardodw
Hanifin should be over 3 on a 2 year deal... Trouba was 6m for 2 years 2 years ago.
Lindholm 5x5 is the best case scenario. 3 x 2 and 6.3 x3 prime ufa years.
That is 1.7M less than Backlund for prime UFA years.
Backlund got 5.35 for 6 which breaks down to 8, 8, 8, 3, 2, 2 Backlund was breaking down last season the season he turned 29. his 30-31-32 seasons are expected to be great as there is no pattern or reason to expect that 33-34-35 years will be at a 1a C level.
I feel that the Flames panicked and paid Backlund too much but there is not a lot of general complaining about the contract. If Backlund's contract is fair then 5x5 for Lindholm is a real bargain
Based on expectation that Lindolm is a better player than Backlund.
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Cane's model, while only a computation has been pretty accurate.
Hanifin gets ...
2 x 2.3
3 x 2.8
4 x 3.8
5 x 4.4
6 x 4.4
7 x 4.4
so you're 250k or high on a two year if he's right.
Lindholm gets ...
5 x 5.0
6 x 5.0
so if he's right it's not best case it's his predicted case to see 5x5
Cane before Backlund signed had him at 6*5.7 so the Flames saved 350K on that contract if compared to a model.
So I don't see a panic, and I think you might be pleasantly surprised (or annoyed) when the two Carolina guys come in reasonable.
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07-07-2018, 10:23 AM
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#123
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
Cane's model, while only a computation has been pretty accurate.
Hanifin gets ...
2 x 2.3
3 x 2.8
4 x 3.8
5 x 4.4
6 x 4.4
7 x 4.4
so you're 250k or high on a two year if he's right.
Lindholm gets ...
5 x 5.0
6 x 5.0
so if he's right it's not best case it's his predicted case to see 5x5
Cane before Backlund signed had him at 6*5.7 so the Flames saved 350K on that contract if compared to a model.
So I don't see a panic, and I think you might be pleasantly surprised (or annoyed) when the two Carolina guys come in reasonable.
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Thanks Bingo.
Also 7*4.4 sounds amazing to me. Do you think Hanifin’s camp would sign such a contract? I guess for his 3rd contract he’d be looking for an OEL or Carlson type deal if he improves that much (adjusted for increases in the salary cap).
6*5 also sounds good too.
Last edited by Nelson; 07-07-2018 at 11:57 AM.
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07-07-2018, 10:45 AM
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#124
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niemo
Not just points, but mainly defensive play. Hanifin can get there, but he isn't there yet. I'm sure anyone would take Slavin over Hanifin, and I've liked Hanifin since his draft year.
That being said, I hope our D coach can help Hanifin release his full potential.... after he signs long term.
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Maybe, players are paid for points though. I would think their contracts would be similar. There has also been some salary inflation over the last year with the increase in cap.
__________________
GFG
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07-07-2018, 12:55 PM
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#125
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
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Backlund was a pending UFA, though, so it's a tough comparison.
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07-07-2018, 01:54 PM
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#126
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
Cane's model, while only a computation has been pretty accurate.
Hanifin gets ...
2 x 2.3
3 x 2.8
4 x 3.8
5 x 4.4
6 x 4.4
7 x 4.4
so you're 250k or high on a two year if he's right.
Lindholm gets ...
5 x 5.0
6 x 5.0
so if he's right it's not best case it's his predicted case to see 5x5
Cane before Backlund signed had him at 6*5.7 so the Flames saved 350K on that contract if compared to a model.
So I don't see a panic, and I think you might be pleasantly surprised (or annoyed) when the two Carolina guys come in reasonable.
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When Backlund signed he was a top end #2c. Since he signed he has become a top end #3C.
Do you expect Backlund to be better than Lindholm in 2018-19? any year in the future?
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07-07-2018, 02:03 PM
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#127
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricardodw
When Backlund signed he was a top end #2c. Since he signed he has become a top end #3C.
Do you expect Backlund to be better than Lindholm in 2018-19? any year in the future?
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Explain why that matters?
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07-07-2018, 02:04 PM
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#128
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Backup Goalie
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Kamloops, B.C.
Exp:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricardodw
When Backlund signed he was a top end #2c. Since he signed he has become a top end #3C.
Do you expect Backlund to be better than Lindholm in 2018-19? any year in the future?
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Lol over the course of the last what, 25 games Backlund dropped from a very good #2C to a very good #3C?? You're kidding right?
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07-07-2018, 02:06 PM
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#129
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricardodw
When Backlund signed he was a top end #2c. Since he signed he has become a top end #3C.
Do you expect Backlund to be better than Lindholm in 2018-19? any year in the future?
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Or...... he had an off year. These things happen.
Hard to say who will be better this year, Lindholm certainly has the potential to pass him. But that is irrelevant to his contract negotiations because it hasn't happened yet.
The facts, such as they are, are that Lindholm is an RFA. And his career high is 45 points, whereas Backlund had just completed a 53 point season before signing his (entirely UFA) contract.
Lindholm will not get as much as Backlund, that is almost a certainty.
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07-07-2018, 04:10 PM
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#130
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the2bears
Explain why that matters?
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Same reason the Flames don't want to pay anyone more than Gio.
Having your highest priced players contributing the most to team success makes for a good team.
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07-07-2018, 04:27 PM
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#131
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricardodw
Same reason the Flames don't want to pay anyone more than Gio.
Having your highest priced players contributing the most to team success makes for a good team.
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I doubt it makes much of a difference. You have ELCs, RFAs, UFAs, players signed at different times under different salary cap situations, player salaries inherited through trades.
Pay scales are inherently unfair. Players get that. Backlund's pay with respect to Lindholm's won't affect either of their contributions to team success.
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07-07-2018, 04:52 PM
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#132
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Scoring Winger
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Lindholm and Hanifin have done nothing to date to be worth 5MM IMO.
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07-07-2018, 04:53 PM
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#133
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Scoring Winger
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Treliving is also a grinder when it comes to resigning players. Hopefully he is the gift that keeps on giving this offseason...
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07-07-2018, 04:56 PM
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#134
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niemo
Lindholm and Hanifin have done nothing to date to be worth 5MM IMO.
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If you sign them to a contract that covers some UFA years, you have to pay them accordingly.
A 6 year contract for either one will be based partly on expectation.
If you wait, it could easily cost you quite a bit more.
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07-07-2018, 04:59 PM
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#135
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Calgary
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Would like to see us sign Hanifin to a Klefbom type deal. I think that is very fair
__________________
"May those who accept their fate find happiness. May those who defy it find glory."
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07-07-2018, 07:19 PM
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#136
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Franchise Player
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Hanifin's former teammate, Brett Pesce is a pretty good comparable
6 year, $4.025 per
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07-07-2018, 07:31 PM
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#137
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
Cane's model, while only a computation has been pretty accurate.
Hanifin gets ...
2 x 2.3
3 x 2.8
4 x 3.8
5 x 4.4
6 x 4.4
7 x 4.4
so you're 250k or high on a two year if he's right.
Lindholm gets ...
5 x 5.0
6 x 5.0
so if he's right it's not best case it's his predicted case to see 5x5
Cane before Backlund signed had him at 6*5.7 so the Flames saved 350K on that contract if compared to a model.
So I don't see a panic, and I think you might be pleasantly surprised (or annoyed) when the two Carolina guys come in reasonable.
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If you can convince Hanifin to sign for 6 or 7 years in the low $4s, you have to jump all over it. Otherwise, it's 2 or 3 years. The one thing you can't do, is sign him for 4 or 5 years though, that makes no sense.
As for Lindholm, I think it comes in under $5M (high 4s) unless he agrees to 7 years.
I will predict 6 x $4.9M - takes him to 29 where he can still cash in.
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07-08-2018, 11:35 AM
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#139
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Acerbic Cyberbully
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: back in Chilliwack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski
For the money predicted for Lindholm, I really hope we see growth in his offensive game. It's in him as he was drafted in the top 5 but I wonder if he's had to pay more attention to his defensive game just because of the team in Carolina...
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It is fairly common for high scoring players like Lindholm who grew up playing in the SEL to take several years to adjust to the offensive side of the game in the NHL. Lindholm is at about the right age to experience a breakout.
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07-08-2018, 11:40 AM
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#140
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Textcritic
It is fairly common for high scoring players like Lindholm who grew up playing in the SEL to take several years to adjust to the offensive side of the game in the NHL. Lindholm is at about the right age to experience a breakout.
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Good point and it may be fairly evident but why do you think there is such and adjustment period (and it's length)? Dimensions of the rink and the associated tactics?
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