[Signing] Vegas re-signs Ryan Reaves 2 yrs, 2.775 per year

[Red]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

"Keyboard tough guys need to shut up"
That's some fantastic debating there.
I agree with him. The game is changing and I look forward to the day when guys like Reaves don't have a job in the NHL.

My point is that until then something has to be done.

These keyboard warriors have a problem with enforcers but have no problems seeing younger and smaller players abused on ice. Some compassion.

Until it is you taking elbows to the head, just let hockey people decide what has a place in the game and what doesn't.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by Red

My point is that until then something has to be done.

These keyboard warriors have a problem with enforcers but have no problems seeing younger and smaller players abused on ice. Some compassion.

Until it is you taking elbows to the head, just let hockey people decide what has a place in the game and what doesn't.

Something is being done, it seems. Flames just signed Dalton Prout to likely be their 7th D-man at 1-year, $800,000 (much cheaper than signing Reaves would've likely been).

Prout beat up Lucic a couple times when Prout was playing in the NHL.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Red

My point is that until then something has to be done.

These keyboard warriors have a problem with enforcers but have no problems seeing younger and smaller players abused on ice. Some compassion.

Until it is you taking elbows to the head, just let hockey people decide what has a place in the game and what doesn't.

Hockey people are terrible at deciding what has a place in the game. Hockey, as a general profession, isn't taking head injuries seriously enough.

In my view the rules need too be enforced by the officials. The role of a so-called enforcer out justice is both idiotic and largely ineffective.

So no - sorry. I'll express my views. I don't know how that makes me a "keyboard warrior".

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Red

My point is that until then something has to be done.

These keyboard warriors have a problem with enforcers but have no problems seeing younger and smaller players abused on ice. Some compassion.

Until it is you taking elbows to the head, just let hockey people decide what has a place in the game and what doesn't.

Might as well just shut this whole forum down then.

Turn out the lights guys, Red has told everyone there's no point in further discussing the moves your team makes anymore.

Let's just leave it to the "hockey people" to decide and we should just sit quietly on our back decks and wait until the first game is on TV before being involved any further.

What is wrong with this place these days. The Reaves/Tough Guy supporters are out in full force, disrespecting any opposing opinion. Still pining for the old Broad Street Bully era I guess.

[Toonage]

Don't shut this forum down. I need something to do at work.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Hockey people are terrible at deciding what has a place in the game. Hockey, as a general profession, isn't taking head injuries seriously enough.

In my view the rules need too be enforced by the officials. The role of a so-called enforcer out justice is both idiotic and largely ineffective.

So no - sorry. I'll express my views. I don't know how that makes me a "keyboard warrior".

And fans are a hundred times worse.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by transplant99

And fans are a hundred times worse.

They're not deciding. They're discussing.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Hockey people are terrible at deciding what has a place in the game. Hockey, as a general profession, isn't taking head injuries seriously enough.

In my view the rules need too be enforced by the officials. The role of a so-called enforcer out justice is both idiotic and largely ineffective.

So no - sorry. I'll express my views. I don't know how that makes me a "keyboard warrior".

Sure. That would be great but the reality is that our star players have no protection. When one gets his bell rung AGAIN i guess we shouldnt be upset because the offender probably got 2 minutes in the box. Meanwhile the guy is out with a concussion.

Whatever. Players want protection, argue with them and good luck signing a skilled player here. They will go where they are safer. Again, we need to deal with reality not the dreamland.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by transplant99

And fans are a hundred times worse.

True.
Really we should probably just put the state of the game in the hands of Ken Dryden.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Red

Sure. That would be great but the reality is that our star players have no protection. When one gets his bell rung AGAIN i guess we shouldnt be upset because the offender probably got 2 minutes in the box. Meanwhile the guy is out with a concussion.

Whatever. Players want protection, argue with them and good luck signing a skilled player here. They will go where they are safer. Again, we need to deal with reality not the dreamland.

Your position is that players decide where they want to play on the basis of who the enforcer is?

[Red]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Your position is that players decide where they want to play on the basis of who the enforcer is?

Yes players look at that too. There is a reason why most teams with stars have tough guys.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Red

Yes players look at that too. There is a reason why most teams with stars have tough guys.

Becoming less and less...and I doubt players really look at that. But that's your view.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

True.
Really we should probably just put the state of the game in the hands of Ken Dryden.

Well if its between him and you......hmm.

Come on. Fans are fans, we know little. Listen to the players or the gms because they know what the players want.

I know someone who is close to Corson and Tucker. Sure, old guys now, but they know how hockey works outside of a fans view. They are still very connected to todas players. I will take their opinion over yours no offense or any other casual fan's.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Red

Well if its between him and you......hmm.

Come on. Fans are fans, we know little. Listen to the players or the gms because they know what the players want.

I know someone who is close to Corson and Tucker. Sure, old guys now, but they know how hockey works outside of a fans view. They are still very connected to todas players. I will take their opinion over yours no offense or any other casual fan's.

Again players are terrible judges of what is right for the game long-term. These are guys that at one point wanted to have the right to play the game with no helmets, and hate visors.
I'm not asking you take my opinion. But nor do i frankly care what guys like Darcy Tucker or Shayne Corson have to say.
Players are going to resist change to their sport, particularly change that decreases physicality in the game. Doesn't mean they are right. Frankly I don't care "what players want".

If you are going to listen guys like Darcy Tucker and Corson perhaps also give the words of Nick Boyton a read.
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en...ythings-not-ok

Another good one:
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en...ions-right-now

[Jiri Hrdina]

And here's a Dryden article that is a summary of his book:

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en...ime-for-action

"We need only to penalize all hits to the head, because whether a blow is from a stick, an elbow, a shoulder or a fist, whether it’s done intentionally or accidentally, whether it’s legal or illegal, the brain doesn’t distinguish."

I agree. For this to work the rules have to crack down and be enforced to eliminate damaging blows.

And this is basically your argument.

"This is especially the case with “the hockey guys” on the sports networks and in the newsrooms. Most of them are men. They know the game. They played it. They lived it with their fathers and with their buddies. They live it today. They love it. They learned many of their most meaningful life lessons from it; and they’ve passed many of these same life lessons on to their kids through it. To them, you don’t mess around with the game because this stuff is just too important."

[Red]

I am not disagreeing that the game needs cleaning up. I disagree that the Flames should lead the efforts. Kill or be killed, thats reality.
Thats not even touching the instigator rules. Some debate about that being bad too.
I dont know whats right or wrong here. But the reality is that this is still a big part of the game. So we need to choose what's better for the team not the game of hockey.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Hockey is still a physical sport. Fighting is still very much part of the game. Some people may look forward to a day when hockey isn't so violent, but these wishes don't change the fact that it is violent. Intimidation is a thing in hockey. Players overwhelmingly want fighting to remain a part of the game. Most fans as well.


I shake my head at some people who look at a guy like Reaves and think: "Just a useless face puncher". No, that's not correct. Reaves is a pretty good skater and very good forechecker, and he helps his teams win. The goons have been forced out of the league already. Reaves is not just a goon. He is an effective hockey player who has been shown to change the momentum of a game and has also recently been shown to change the momentum of a series.


Also, people forget guys players on the Flames specifically talking about having a guy that can look out for them on the ice. Iginla spoke about it a number of times. Backlund spoke about it a few times, even citing that when you have a guy like that on your team, you play like you are 2 inches taller. What does that mean? It means you can go out there and play with confidence rather than having to worry about stuff. That's beneficial, no?


The NHL - management and players - have no inclination on really making an impact on concussions. If they did, the center line would be reintroduced for the two-line pass slowing things down considerably. That would take a lot of the concussions away.


I don't think the game needs fighting cleaned-up. It has become very sterile and mostly played without emotion. You 'clean it up' more, and run the risk of reducing it to something else. I am not sure I would like that something else. I choose to watch NHL hockey. I choose not to watch ringette. Want to practically eliminate concussions? Make NHL hockey a lot more like ringette.



At any rate, labeling Reaves as just a 'face puncher' is completely discrediting his ability as a hockey player, and discrediting his contribution to his team. He is a sought-after hockey player because of the entirety of the ability he has. Otherwise, you would see a bunch of goons out there like we had even 10 years ago. Reaves would have gotten beat up routinely then. He is a professional hockey player.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

And here's a Dryden article that is a summary of his book:

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en...ime-for-action

"We need only to penalize all hits to the head, because whether a blow is from a stick, an elbow, a shoulder or a fist, whether it’s done intentionally or accidentally, whether it’s legal or illegal, the brain doesn’t distinguish."

I agree. For this to work the rules have to crack down and be enforced to eliminate damaging blows.

And this is basically your argument.

"This is especially the case with “the hockey guys” on the sports networks and in the newsrooms. Most of them are men. They know the game. They played it. They lived it with their fathers and with their buddies. They live it today. They love it. They learned many of their most meaningful life lessons from it; and they’ve passed many of these same life lessons on to their kids through it. To them, you don’t mess around with the game because this stuff is just too important."

Do you listen to The Lede podcast with Stephen Brunt (and Jeff Blair is part of it to)? They had Ken Dryden on for the whole episode #4 this week. A discussion between those two is a great listen.

[AC]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1013228560738390017

That's pricey! I would have liked him here, but not at that tag.

[iloveicedhockey]

2.775m per year, two year deal.

Edit: AC'd