Hockey Hall of Fame announcement day

[Huntingwhale]

Can one of the old timers here chime in, was Willie O'Ree even that good of a player?

[looooob]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Vernon was a great goalie and has the hardware to back it up, but I'm not sure if I ever remember him to be considered amongst the truly elite even in his time...ie amongst goalies like Roy, Brodeur, Hasek, Belfour. Now some of those guys are all-time legends, and it depends on your HOF standards, but personally I think you need to be amongst the best of your generation if you want to be considered one of the best of all time.

Was Vernon? I think it's debatable, and probably why he's not it at the moment.

I don't think he was that different than his near direct contemporary Grant Fuhr


Fuhr 403 W 3.38 GAA .887
Vernon 385 W 2.94 GAA .890


each won 2 individual awards ( Vezina and Jennings Fuhr, Jennings and Smythe Vernon)


while it is true Fuhr has more cups (4- / did not play in the 1990 playoffs) , vernon is no slouch with 2 himself


Fuhr has some sort of legendary status for 'never letting in the 5th goal' or something , that to me just means the Oilers scored a crapload and he was good enough. both guys played for great teams but Fuhr's teams were a bit better and scored more


Is Vernon a HOFer? Meh. not sure. borderline. but we should always remember that (even for the stricter halls like baseball) the HOF isnt only for the inner circle elites (Hasek, Roy, Brodeur)


where does Vernon fit on the next tiers? not sure. Rogie Vachon (enjoyed watching him when I was young) just got in for example

[looooob]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I am not getting the Mike Vernon love. In my mind, he was a pretty good goalie, but seldom was he considered an elite goalie. He is also an awful person so he gets no points there.

To me he's no better than Chris Osgood, and does anyone talk about him being in the HOF?

actually Osgood (who I don't think is a HOFer) does get a fair amount of HOF chatter in certain corners

[looooob]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

Can one of the old timers here chime in, was Willie O'Ree even that good of a player?

hmm tough one. last game in the NHL was 1961...gonna have to page Cheese on this one

[Grimbl420]

My comparable to Vernon is Fuhr who's in the hall. Vernon > Fuhr, and the stats are there to prove it.

[tvp2003]

Vernie was one of the few (Fuhr and Roy are the two others) to excel during the high flying 80’s and the low scoring 90’s. As such, I think he is deserving even though the chances of him actually making it are slim.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Also off topic, but I wonder if or when Jagr hangs them up if he gets his waiting period waived.

The league said after Gretzky they would no longer be waiving the waiting period. Though, It's been almost two decades, so all the ass kissing decisions they made then might have worn off.

Originally Posted by Table 5

Vernon was a great goalie and has the hardware to back it up, but I'm not sure if I ever remember him to be considered amongst the truly elite even in his time...ie amongst goalies like Roy, Brodeur, Hasek, Belfour. Now some of those guys are all-time legends, and it depends on your HOF standards, but personally I think you need to be amongst the best of your generation if you want to be considered one of the best of all time.

Was Vernon? I think it's debatable, and probably why he's not it at the moment.

Mike Vernon was a better goaltender than Grant Fuhr. Especially in the playoffs. The only advantage Fuhr had was that he played on a bunch of Oilers teams that carried him to 400 wins.

Vernon was one of the best of his generation.

[Stay Golden]

Brodeur top 3 of Alltime no question jmo if not the best Goalie ever than who?

St Louis better than average stats since he is going in Iggy should be in np when he first becomes eligable.
Almost double the goals approx 300 points more & approx 500 gp more.
Theo more points and Goals in less games than St Louis but I think the HHOF has black listed Theo behind closed doors jmo.

O' Ree no issues with that as a builder, he paved the way for Black players he should be commended for his perserverance especially in that era.

Bettman as a builder but why now when he is still the current commissioner I don't get that aspect of the decision. Players have to wait & so should he.
His arrogance in interviews will be even that more intolerable. Retire than put him in but whatever I am not going to lose any sleep over it.

Alexander Yakushev tremendously talented player for Russia. As a kid I didn't like him but that only because it was Canada or nothing back then in very politically charged series. Incredible smooth skater.

Jayna Hefford her 5 time Olympic career and stats speak for themselves. One of the real catalysts on those teams.

[FlatLandFlamesFan]

Bettman ! what the hell are they thinking , at least wait for him to retire.

[jg13]

[Strange Brew]

Having the sitting commissioner inducted seems really odd to me. Really odd.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Having the sitting commissioner inducted seems really odd to me. Really odd.

[getbak]

To put it in perspective, of the previous NHL Presidents:

1. Frank Calder was the first NHL President. He served from the league's founding in 1917 until his death in 1943, the same year the HHOF was established. He was among the second group of Builders inducted into the Hall in 1947.
   
   
2. Red Dutton took over as President after Calder's death in 1943. He was a reluctant president who felt the job took too much time away from his business interests in Calgary. Clarence Campbell was Calder's chosen successor, but Campbell had joined the Army when the war started and he was still overseas when Calder died. When Campbell left the Army and returned to Canada, Dutton gladly resigned and allowed Campbell to take the job in 1946. Dutton was inducted into the HHOF as a player in 1958.
   
   
3. Clarence Campbell became the President in 1946 and held the office until 1977. He was inducted into the HHOF in 1966, 20 years into his presidency and 11 years before his retirement.
   
   
4. John Ziegler replaced Campbell as President in 1977 and was inducted into the HHOF in 1987, 10 years into his presidency and 5 years before he was removed from office.
   
   
5. Gil Stein replaced Ziegler in 1992 and was the NHL's final President. He also held the office for the shortest period of time, being replaced by Bettman in 1993. He was controversially inducted into the HHOF in 1993. After an investigation that found he may have manipulated the voting process to ensure his induction, he withdrew his nomination and was never officially inducted into the Hall.

Bettman has been the Commissioner for over 25 years now, so he has held the office longer than both Campbell and Ziegler did when they were inducted.

[Steve Bozek]

Is there any other team besides the Flames, that has given up on, or traded away two future Hart Trophy and HOF players early in their career, before they were recognized as stars? A few have done one - Chicago’s trade of Phil Esposito to Boston comes to mind, but I don’t think any other team has done two.

[loob job]

Willie O'Ree's stats:
Obviously isn't about his stats in the NHL
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...y.php?pid=8354

[OutOfTheCube]

Is there any other team besides the Flames, that has given up on, or traded away two future Hart Trophy and HOF players early in their career, before they were recognized as stars? A few have done one - Chicago’s trade of Phil Esposito to Boston comes to mind, but I don’t think any other team has done two.

Chicago also gave up on Hasek after 25 games and sent him to Buffalo for peanuts. They had Belfour at the time, but still.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by Steve Bozek

Is there any other team besides the Flames, that has given up on, or traded away two future Hart Trophy and HOF players early in their career, before they were recognized as stars? A few have done one - Chicago’s trade of Phil Esposito to Boston comes to mind, but I don’t think any other team has done two.

Chiarelli traded away 4 of the top 10 scorers from last season.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

Can one of the old timers here chime in, was Willie O'Ree even that good of a player?

I never saw him play, but when a man can break the colour barrier in a 6 team league and is blind in one eye....... he probably had some pretty good skill.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Steve Bozek

Is there any other team besides the Flames, that has given up on, or traded away two future Hart Trophy and HOF players early in their career, before they were recognized as stars? A few have done one - Chicago’s trade of Phil Esposito to Boston comes to mind, but I don’t think any other team has done two.

Boston comes kinda close - Thornton won the Hart and will be in the HOF. Dryden was drafted by Boston. No Harts but a bunch of Vezinas and a Conn Smythe. Reggie Leach won the Conn Smythe and would have won the Richard if it had existed back then (but no HOF).

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by getbak

[*]Red Dutton took over as President after Calder's death in 1943. He was a reluctant president who felt the job took too much time away from his business interests in Calgary. Clarence Campbell was Calder's chosen successor, but Campbell had joined the Army when the war started and he was still overseas when Calder died. When Campbell left the Army and returned to Canada, Dutton gladly resigned and allowed Campbell to take the job in 1946. Dutton was inducted into the HHOF as a player in 1958.

Also for Dutton, he only took the job in the first place on the promise that the suspended New York Americans would resume play after the war ended. When the owners reneged, Dutton told the league where they could shove the job. He also believed the Rangers were behind it, and swore they would never win another Cup as long as he lived. Dutton's Curse proved powerful too.